To be sick and tired of women's concerns being silenced?

[MerchantofVenice]

Obviously I wouldn't dream of doing a TAAT.

But is anyone else as furious as I am that every time people try to raise legitimate concerns about the legislation about self-identity and transgender people, the whole discussion is shut down?

There's this undertone of 'Oh, you can't say that!!!' when people state scientific facts.

And at the same time, there's this myth that 'MN is one of the only places you can actually discuss the transgender debate openly.' Like fuck it is.

Your average person on the street isn't intimately acquainted with the madness of the debate and will have no qualms about stating facts. You see it on the comments after those nonsense news articles ("Man gives birth"). When you explain the situation to novices (as I did to my husband) they are gobsmacked. They had no idea that it was somehow a hate crime to be literate in biology.

And that's part of the problem; this hushing up colludes with the idea that people are saying something controversial. The debate stays secret and the tide of common sense never comes.

So sick of it.

Ok so the assault on me isn't relevant?

Thanks for that.

How am I personally shafting anyone?

It is biologically impossible for a man to become a woman and vice versa. It is not transphobic to state that scientific fact.

Not all transgender people are rapists...absolutely, but is it right that rapists can go into female toilets where they will have a much higher opportunity of finding a woman or girl?

Sigh.

Do you not think that rapists already go into female toilets to find women or girls? Why do you think that transgender people being allowed to use them will make a blind bit of difference?

Do you really think rapists think "Oh wait, no, I can't go in there, I'm not allowed to!"
?

Sorry I meant to say Dolezal has been roundly pilloried for doing this , was sacked from all posts she held and rejected by her family. I haven't seen a single person defending her right to be transracial

Still not clear what point gotspoiler was making as the concept of being "transracial" has been soundly ridiculed.

The new laws take away women's rights as they will empty the word woman of all meaning. We will no longer be able to view the female sex as a whole and measure our progress, or how we are treated. If we lived in a blissful world where women were treated as equals it wouldn't be a problem, but we don't. We live in a world that mistreats women because of their biology.

Not to me it isn't, nope.

Gah if that's the case - man cannot become woman and vice Verse, then what do you think of the current law?

My husband is firmly opposed to my opinions on this issue. He's used the word 'persecution' about my thoughts.

The changes would allow all male boards presented as 50% male / female

Recently, he told me he'd been in management meeting and he was one of 13 people who was male. How did I like them apples?

I told him that perhaps they weren't females at all...

I think I saw a glimmer of understanding in his eyes, but can't be certain.

At the moment we can challenge a male in the woman's bogs rather than be forced by law to accept their presence.
That's the difference.

interesting article on same sex wards.

And obviously pointed out that his senior management meetings were overwhelmingly male.... or were they?

Genuine question. Because I have googled and can't see an answer but that may be my googling.

Is there a law, an actual law in the statute books, that means a man can't go into what is labelled a woman's toilet? Or a woman go into the men's ?

Lass - my point was what is the difference in theory between transracial & transgender. Why is one accepted but not the other.

Cat you are on a forum arguing against keeping GRC's and in favour of gender self ID, and of abolishing womens protection. That is the definition of a trans activist.

You dont care about sportswomen, Muslim women, Sikh women, Romany women, Jewish women, or what other women think or feel.
But you sure do demand a lot.

Cat

Why are you ignoring my personal experience?

Max, do you really think that "challenging" a male entering a female space with the intent to do harm is going to have any affect on his actions whatsoever?

What exactly do you think you can do to stop a man from raping you in a female toilet right now, as the law stands? Do you really think saying "Excuse me, you're not allowed in here" is going to make a difference? Do you think a rapist is going to say "Oh, yes, actually you're right, sorry, I'll turn around and walk out again" ?!

Your argument holds no weight whatsoever.

Ok so the assault on me isn't relevant?

Not to the discussion of how this affects all women.

If you're happy about it, then fine. Campaign for it.

We aren't happy. Derailing a discussion with you, only you, only what you care about and only what happened to you isn't going to help anyone.

Victim Support might be a better support for you.

Catandtwodogs
There is no law to state which toilet we can use. Men/women who dont cause a problem can use the wrong toilet and most people dont care.
But if they are in the toilet for the wrong reason they can be evicted.

Men do not currently have the legal right to access a womens toilet. Gender self ID would give them that. We would not be able to get them removed.

Its not just about toilets though. Its also about psychiatric wards. And sports.

Spartacus - but isn't the solution just to campaign for better cleaning of facilities if there really is an issue with cleanliness? I am really not somebody who puts women last - you only need to search for my previous posts to see that this is an issue that massively concerns me overall. I just think that we risk derailing the debate by focusing on a comparatively minor issue that has simple solutions to campaign for - (1) safe, well thought out loo designs; and (2) sufficient and regular cleaning of any facilities.

I really dislike the sneering phrase 'cool girl' when thrown at any woman who disagrees with the MN clique line.

No, I've not lead a terribly sheltered life. I've been raped by a stranger in the street, I've escaped an abusive relationship with a partner who tried to kill me, I've been homeless, I've been assaulted as part of a hate crime, I've been very unwell and sectioned.

I've come through that, I've rebuilt my life, I've survived. I've thought about the issues, I've read all the links posted here, I've heard everyone's stories and I've come to a different conclusion about what is decent and reasonable. My views aren't a desperate attempt to seek male approval as the phrase 'cool girl' suggests, or my being deluded and naive or hypocritical. They just differ to yours.

Smile I don't believe I did ignore you. I suggested single person counselling one in one and single cublicles.

Would those make you feel safe?

I'm not a trans activist and I'm not a man either.

Well you sound very much like one, and you sure don't like women much, what with your insistence that your trans friend should be able to look at women whether they like it or not. As for the female violence, ffs.

Maid does he have a daughter? Maybe if he realises the rights that she will lose then he will understand your concerns.

Men and women currently have the legal right to use whatever toilet they choose

The new law isn't changing anything in that score