To be sick and tired of women's concerns being silenced?

[MerchantofVenice]

Obviously I wouldn't dream of doing a TAAT.

But is anyone else as furious as I am that every time people try to raise legitimate concerns about the legislation about self-identity and transgender people, the whole discussion is shut down?

There's this undertone of 'Oh, you can't say that!!!' when people state scientific facts.

And at the same time, there's this myth that 'MN is one of the only places you can actually discuss the transgender debate openly.' Like fuck it is.

Your average person on the street isn't intimately acquainted with the madness of the debate and will have no qualms about stating facts. You see it on the comments after those nonsense news articles ("Man gives birth"). When you explain the situation to novices (as I did to my husband) they are gobsmacked. They had no idea that it was somehow a hate crime to be literate in biology.

And that's part of the problem; this hushing up colludes with the idea that people are saying something controversial. The debate stays secret and the tide of common sense never comes.

So sick of it.

Spartacus - oh yes, I completely agree re lack of facilities. The Barbican is why I added that particular caveat!

But I think that many female public loos are just as revolting (I am thinking in particular of the dried menstrual blood streaked on walls that I have often seen). I have to say that I have never really had an issue in theatres and decent restaurants with the cleanliness of gender neutral facilities. And while I agree that, in general, women's facilities are cleaner, I just think that it's not a particularly strong argument when set against the significant stress that a lot of transgender people genuinely do experience when having to choose which facilities to use. I am just so much more concerned about debate on other issues.

maxthemartian Sun 20-Aug-17 13:20:52
So much this. You get a lot of men who are 'white knights' and will help a woman being assaulted or raped. So having more men in a 'safe space' may actually be beneficial

gringringrin

So I say maybe a man might have helped me and you laugh.

Have you any idea how that has made me feel? You are basically laughing at what happened to me.

I am really concerned that so many young girls are transing just because they don't fit an outdated sexist stereotype. We have got to fight these harmful stereotypes, tell girls they can dress how they like and still be young women.

Transracial, transgender, transspecies.

What's the difference?

If said mtf is fully transitioned, that being has a vagina, how is said mtf a threat? She doesn't have a penis. Sure she could grab you and such but other women can do that.

I've never heard such a stupid thing. Typical mra.

No I haven't been rude or patronising. If you are asking me if I believe you, then you are admitting to being a drama llama by implying that I had said that previously, I have never said I don't believe you. Why would you do that? Anyone would think you wanted to derail.
I'd rather get back to the point, I am trying to understand, based on the unfortunate and distressing experiences you claim to have had, why you think it is safer to allow men into female only spaces?
It may benefit a very small minority of trans people, make them feel better, to allow this (but tbh if they are that far along with hormone therapy and surgery they can probably use many womens spaces anyway without anyone knowing) but the risks it creates and increases for 99% of women (male violence) just mean it is not worth it for society as a whole. If trans people want to be mad get mad at men for creating this situation, not women who want to be safe.

Counselling should be one in one.

Toilets should be single cublicles.

Changing areas should like wise be single cublicles.

That is my proposed solution.

As far as sport, I don't care. Not interested in sport.

Cat, men are responsible for 98% of sexual violence. That doesn't diminish what happened to you but when we are making laws we should be aware of the facts. Laws should not be made round one persons experience. So all female sport should not be sabotaged because you don't watch sport.

I believe a man being in the single space may have stopped the women assaulting me and he may have intervened if he had seen it happening.

That's my opinion.

I'm glad so many find it funny.

Oh behave cat. You made a general statement, and a ludicrous one at that.

I've also not noticed much concern from you about women's fears of being assaulted by men.

Male crime should be recorded as male crime, not female. If a company presents there figures they should be sex based so that we can see if women are getting a fair deal. The changes would allow all male boards presented as 50% male / female.

I don't believe that making spaces shared is dangerous.

In my experience single sex spaces are not safe. Why should we keep the status quo when they aren't safe?

Either make them shared or make all cublicles single and that would solve the problem.

Catandtwodogs. Whatever therapy you've had hasn't worked.

This isn't all about you.

You were assaulted and left scarred by a woman.

Other women have left people dead, disfigured or blind. I'm not denying that there are female offenders.

However, the vast majority of violent offenders are male.

The vast majority of violent offences are committed by men.

But we're not specifically addressing the issue of violence.

We are talking about how the laws about transgender people affect women.

The definition of woman. The rights of women and how this erodes them.

Ginger you have no justification for making such a personal statement about me and my therapy.

That is rude.

Dolce and Cat I will happily stand with what you call "these people".

Not all transgender people are rapists...absolutely, but is it right that rapists can go into female toilets where they will have a much higher opportunity of finding a woman or girl?

Cat, this thread is about trans activists like yourself silencing women. Other women care about sport, and other issues as well that are completely irrelevant to you. Such as sterilising children.

If you want gender neutral spaces them campaign for them. dont erase single sex protections just because you dont want them.

MTF are women. That's the point of the GRA and the self identification bill.

And to say they aren't is rude and transphobic.

My friend is legally a woman and it is a breach of the equality act to say she isn't.

It's Orwellian rubbish that no one believes except hard of thinking virtue signallers. Like you.

And we will fight the self identification bill because this is not something the majority want. People are waking up to what's being done.

This massively concerns me:
www.transgendertrend.com/from-adult-males-to-teenage-girls-the-movement-from-etiology-to-ideology/

Teenage referrals to the Tavistock clinic are now over 70% female. Young girls (who may be gay and struggling with their identity and sexuality) are identifying with the dominant gender in record numbers. Of course there needs to be open debate about why they are doing this, and why they do not just feel like young, gay women who don't fit a "feminine" gender stereotype.

But I think that many female public loos are just as revolting (I am thinking in particular of the dried menstrual blood streaked on walls that I have often seen)

Really? I have never seen this? Ever. And I have walked this planet near fifty years now why yes, I am calling bollocks.

I have to say that I have never really had an issue in theatres and decent restaurants with the cleanliness of gender neutral facilities

I have. It stops me going to some places and it stops my Muslim female friends going to many places.

And while I agree that, in general, women's facilities are cleaner, I just think that it's not a particularly strong argument when set against the significant stress that a lot of transgender people genuinely do experience when having to choose which facilities to use. I am just so much more concerned about debate on other issues

Because women, no matter what class, colour, ethnicity, creed or whatever always come last.

I'm not a trans activist and I'm not a man either.

Just to clear that up.

Sorry. Just read that back..

I'm not saying there aren't female offenders.

I don't have to campaign for anything.

Why do I? Why do I have to campaign? Who says so?

Cat - Admittingly I'm being facetious but your not interested in sport & it has no impact on your life. Therefore you don't care to discuss it.

I'm not particularly concerned with female on female violence & don't think it's relevant to the thread.