To be sick and tired of women's concerns being silenced?

[MerchantofVenice]

Obviously I wouldn't dream of doing a TAAT.

But is anyone else as furious as I am that every time people try to raise legitimate concerns about the legislation about self-identity and transgender people, the whole discussion is shut down?

There's this undertone of 'Oh, you can't say that!!!' when people state scientific facts.

And at the same time, there's this myth that 'MN is one of the only places you can actually discuss the transgender debate openly.' Like fuck it is.

Your average person on the street isn't intimately acquainted with the madness of the debate and will have no qualms about stating facts. You see it on the comments after those nonsense news articles ("Man gives birth"). When you explain the situation to novices (as I did to my husband) they are gobsmacked. They had no idea that it was somehow a hate crime to be literate in biology.

And that's part of the problem; this hushing up colludes with the idea that people are saying something controversial. The debate stays secret and the tide of common sense never comes.

So sick of it.

Won't allowing men in toilets make you twice as unsafe?

The vast majority of violent offenders and sex offenders are male.

I know NAMALT. But by preventing all biological men from accessing women only spaces, that reduces the odds of assault by any man.

cat women have enough shame heaped on them by society, I'm not taking on anymore at your behest. Even if if you did put it in capitals

For what it is worth, when I was a child, I was watched by a man in a public changing room. I was alone, looked up and saw I was being watched. I went to scream. He scarpered. These days, I'd be conditioned to think 'even though he is standing watching me, even though I am all alone, even though I am highly vulnerable, he HAS THE FEELS and thinks he is a women, so I should smile nicely and welcome him in. If I was raped (and I was so young I did not know what rape was), I would, of course, be accused of 'asking for it'.

Here is a video that details men identifying as women who have attacked women.

How is it selfish to say the answer isn't separate spaces? Separate spaces are not safe.

If someone has a wicked intent then the space being single or not will not stop them.

Puff, I respectfully suggest that the ones who need to "get to therapy" are the people who think that all males and trans women are potential attackers.

cat, there's no arguing with logic with these people. :-/

Please can we stop focusing on women's toilets. It is such a comparatively minor issue. Most women agree that there is little problem with well designed gender neutral cubicles (subject to there being sufficient facilities for women) or with transgender men or women using the facilities they feel most comfortable with. There are some situations where safety needs to be considered in the design (e.g. I am very uncomfortable with badly designed unisex loos in bars having been dragged into one by a drunk man) but generally it is such a derailing of the debate to focus on this issue alone.

It almost seems as though it is part of the silencing to focus on the toilets issue. A way to score easy points without having to engage with the much more important issues that really need dialogue and awareness raising, e.g. women's sport, prisons, the gender stereotypical language that is used to explain why somebody "feels" like a man or a woman, the influence of social media and peer pressure on confused gay teenagers.

Trans activists have just admitted they want to allow men into womens private spaces.

Its not about trans rights at all, is it.

Of course women commit violence too & yes you are more likely to be a victim of rape/child abuse by someone close to you. And yes the large majority of mtf trans would not dream of hurting anyone.

However there will be people who take advantage of this & I think it's ridiculous that a male sex offender can transition & move to a female prison, etc.

So if it's acceptable that one can interchange their gender, can we do it with age or race?

Also cat'please tell me where I have said I don't believe you, or where I have asserted you are in fact a man. I haven't. I simply said your attitude and selfishness seem rather male (entitlement) and you response, and solutions for society, to what happened to you is unusual. I know it's unusual because I've worked with many victims of assault.
OP I agree with your original post.

www.shegeeksout.com/women-spaces-important/

dumdum56

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal

Make of it what you will

Cat - I'm sorry you were assaulted. It's not something anyone should have to experience.

Tbf the main issue I have with the toilet sharing is longer queues & piss smells.

Please can we stop focusing on women's toilets. It is such a comparatively minor issue. Most women agree that there is little problem with well designed gender neutral cubicles (subject to there being sufficient facilities for women

Thing is, there isn't. Where there is a trend to gender neutrality it is at the expense of women only facilities (see the Barbican for an example). I don't want to use gender neutral facilities and nor do many women - for good reason. Wherever I have had to use them they have been disgusting because men have pissed on the seat, floor and sometimes the walls and often they are not safe.

Puff you have been rude and patronising.

Do you actually believe me?

So much this. You get a lot of men who are 'white knights' and will help a woman being assaulted or raped. So having more men in a 'safe space' may actually be beneficial

I am very angry when I see crime committed by men recorded as female, we have the right to access accurate crime stats.

I am deeply concerned that harmful sexist stereotypes are increasingly enforced and policed, we should be fighting this.

max

Yes, that made me chortle too.

However even though I've never been assaulted etc I completely understand why a woman that has may feel unsafe & I don't see why her rights are below that of men.

What a heroic white knight

gotspoiler

dumdum56

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal

Make of it what you will

What point are you trying to make?

Dolezal has been roundly pilloried for doing this ,was sacked from all posts she held and rejected by her family. I haven't seen a single person defending her right to be "transgender"

I work in a large open plan office space.

With professional people including medical staff.

We have two unisex toilets - completely enclosed rooms, suitable for disabled people.

Due to cutbacks they are only cleaned once a day.

They end up in a disgusting state.

What can only be described as sabotage - piss up the walls, around the toilet and shit outside the bowl too.

Yes, there are female saboteurs, but such creatures are more likely to be male.

I hate it.

Gender neutral toilets in 'suitable' areas need to be cleaned and monitored even nore keenly.

Gotspoilor - yes I remember the outrage & I don't get the difference. Yes she has white privilege like men have male privilege.

The crime statistics recording issue really pisses me off.

I care about women and childrens rights.. Thats why I care about womens sports, DV shelters, Rape Crisis, Womens Centres, women only hospital & psychiatric wards and toilets.
I care about women of different religions and backgrounds to myself.
I know having these rights also benefits men.

I care about historical records, facts, statistics, crime stats, and I'm very suspicious of people who want to silence us and remove all protection. I cant think of any good reason why they would want to do that.

They cannot give a single reason why it would be of benefit to us.

Cat

I accept that single sex spaces are not a solution for you. I'm not sure how having them hurts you - maybe you can expand?

I have also been assaulted. For me, single sex spaces are very important. For a while, they allowed me to access support.

I don't think you would want my voice silenced, would you?