To be sick and tired of women's concerns being silenced?

[MerchantofVenice]

Obviously I wouldn't dream of doing a TAAT.

But is anyone else as furious as I am that every time people try to raise legitimate concerns about the legislation about self-identity and transgender people, the whole discussion is shut down?

There's this undertone of 'Oh, you can't say that!!!' when people state scientific facts.

And at the same time, there's this myth that 'MN is one of the only places you can actually discuss the transgender debate openly.' Like fuck it is.

Your average person on the street isn't intimately acquainted with the madness of the debate and will have no qualms about stating facts. You see it on the comments after those nonsense news articles ("Man gives birth"). When you explain the situation to novices (as I did to my husband) they are gobsmacked. They had no idea that it was somehow a hate crime to be literate in biology.

And that's part of the problem; this hushing up colludes with the idea that people are saying something controversial. The debate stays secret and the tide of common sense never comes.

So sick of it.

I'm not up to reading the thread, the level of bile, false information and hysteria on trans threads is more than I can stand today. To answer the OP, trans inclusion isn't an issue most women have. Most women are intelligent and aware enough to know that the real threat they face isn't from transwomen, it's from regular men, usually their husbands.

I've read more threads on MN about women being raped or assaulted by their husbands or partners than I care to remember. I've read hundreds more about more general male violence. I'm still able to not insult all men or treat them like feeling-less shits because I've got the intelligence to understand their they're not all the same.

I wish the same for the few of you who need it.

Dolcezza, cat explicitly said they based their views on their own experiences, I'm merely paying attention to what a poster said. I never claimed to speak for all women. But I am a woman, I know a lot of women, and I've worked with vulnerable women, and I don't know a single one whose life has not been touched by male violence.
Namalt, classic derail. Well done.

I really loathe the almost psychopathic selfishness of "I am fine sharing intimate space with strange men and those who don't need to get over themselves". It encapsulates liberal feminism and its prioritisation of the individual over the collective. I'm all right and fuck everyone else.

Their behaviour can be challenged under current law.

Women have the right to privacy and dignity. 98% of sexual violence is committed by males so same sex facilities are needed.

Women and girls who have suffered at the hands of men have the right to access same sex facilities. Why are some people so keen for young girls to have to take their clothes off in front of males?

It's not just toilets and changing rooms, it's rape crisis centres and dv centres. Crime stats should be recorded accurately, if a man rapes or murders it should not be recorded as female crime.

cat touchy!

For me, gender, like religion, is a belief about oneself, a belief that dictates behaviour, presentation etc.

I support anyone's right to believe what they want about themself. I reject the idea that this belief should restrict their access to employment, training, goods and services.

I just don't see why this particular belief about oneself has any relevance to another category of protected characteristic, one which is not a belief but a fact about oneself. Why, when you affirm a particular gender identity, are you allowed to alter your sex on your birth certificate? You're not allowed to alter your DOB or placeOB, why your sex?

We have utterly lost sight, as a society, about the difference between gender and sex. The GRA is a fucking nightmarish mishmash of the two.

And while this conflation continues, spaces that are segregated on sex will be de facto segregated on gender and females will lose the right to safety, privacy and dignity.

It is possible to support free gender identity and to respect biological sex.

I've been assaulted by women and men.

I had a fighting chance against women.

A bloke in a dress? Nope. No hope.

I'm not up to reading the thread, the level of bile, false information and hysteria on trans threads is more than I can stand today

Yeah, the TRA lobby are all for it, aren't they?

Catandtwodogs If you think sharing the toilets with men will make you safer you are kidding yourself.

Its not just toilets. And its about consent.
Trans activists are the ones that want to make the change and abolish the Equality Act.
So you have to prove its safe for women. Make gender neutral third spaces and you all share them in safety. Show us how wrong we are.

Puff. As I have explained. I am female. Born female. With a vagina and not a penis. And I was assaulted.

I believe you and I'm so sorry you suffered that.

Ginger that is almost victim blaming me

And I'm sure you don't mean to do that. Or perhaps you do.

cat touchy!

Shame on you.

Well a female safe space wasn't very bloody safe for me, was it? So how are you going to deal with that?

?????

YA so NBU OP

I thought it was my age and being all mean and mardy but you are right , I too am sick of hearing it and seeing it everywhere and the cynic in me thinks Meh , its bandwagon jumping going on here . Never heard of so much of it till now .

Puff I am stunned that you do not subscribe to we believe you.

Shocking

I was violently assaulted Ina so-called safe space.

How fucking DARE YOU imply that I dint count.

Catandtwodogs
You are being at best disingenuous. How will giving men the legal right to access toilets keep you safe?

Trauma therapy groups are single sex, and we want to keep them that way.
We want to keep the Equality Act and the protections it gives us.

And yes. I'm fucking touchy. I'm fucking touchy because I have a scar on my chin and the mental scars from being assaulted in a so called safe space that really isn't.

And if you think that makes me a man and I have to have felt male violence to know what it felt like to be sexually assaulted and beaten then you are absolutely deluded.

Silenty may be on to something here

Statistically you are more likely to be raped or assaulted by someone you know. We should focus on that more than strangers wearing a dress potentially assaulting you in a changing room

How did keeping it segregated keep me safe?

Tell me please.

Maybe if there had been a man there he might have intervened? Maybe they might not have done it if I had been separate cubicles?

Some of you should be ASHAMED of yourselves.

For the posters asking about what is to stop men putting on dresses and going into female loos for the purposes of assault at present. Nothing but women would be able to call him out or question why he was there or it might be a breach of the peace. Under the new bill this would be unlawful, as he would be able to say he was currently identifying as female.

I would respectfully suggest that if you think the answer is to open up all female safe spaces to men, having been a victim of assault yourself, then you probably need to get to therapy. But I reckon you'll tell me you've already done that and still hold your views. In which case I'd go back to my original assertion that your staggeringly selfish viewpoint is almost male.
silently yes it is pretty touchy to say you feel disconcerted and minimised by a comment on an Internet forum. But it's all about the feelz these days isn't it. Not reality, or what is best for the community at large.

Toilets are not a safe space, they are an intimate space in public. The issue with them is consent and privacy.
Its why they are women only. so that women can participate in public life.

DV shelters and rape crisis groups for both men and women are single sex, and they try to be safe spaces.

I have had therapy puff thank you.

So that makes me male.

Well I have never heard such complete rubbish.

Maybe if there had been a man there he might have intervened? Maybe they might not have done it if I had been separate cubicles?

So much this. You get a lot of men who are 'white knights' and will help a woman being assaulted or raped. So having more men in a 'safe space' may actually be beneficial