Grenfell inquiry will NOT be including broader context and attitudes towards social housing tenants.

[HelenaDove]

Statement from Emma Dent Coad.

kensingtonlabour.com/2017/08/15/grenfell-inquiry-terms-of-reference/amp/

The general attitudes towards tenants are part of the problem. Yet its not to be included?!

David Lammy‏Verified account @DavidLammy 52m
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It is right that the Grenfell inquiry looks into actions of K&C Council before the fire, regulations and reaction of central & local Govnt
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David Lammy‏Verified account @DavidLammy 49m
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But I am deeply disappointed that the narrow terms of reference ignore issue of the provision and management of social housing in the UK
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David Lammy‏Verified account @DavidLammy 48m
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What happened at Grenfell is evidence of systemic failure at a national and local level when it comes to social housing in this country.
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David Lammy‏Verified account @DavidLammy 22m
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The decision to duck these important issues and fail to learn the broader lessons of Grenfell represents a grave injustice to those who died

Helena I don't post very often but have been following these threads with interest.

Thank you for providing MN with such educated, mindful facts on the scenario. It really is appreciated.

catin thankyou.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/15/grenfell-fire-public-inquiry-to-consider-cause-and-council-response?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

" Zita Holbourne, national chair of Black Activists Rising Against Cuts, which is part of the BMELawyers4Grenfell coalition, said the terms were better than expected but added: “It’s not included the wider issues around social housing, socio-economic issues, the issues of race, religion and equality in relation to adequate housing, the impact of austerity and cost-cutting leading to the neglect of residents.”

sorry I don't agree. if you include these much broader issues it will not deal with the main issue - that many people lost their lives in a fire.

there is a need to have a further investigation, I totally support that, but this public enquiry is really not the place for it. not unless of course you want it to get mired in millions of hours of testimony none of which will result in improvements in fire risk assessments and fire safety.

So the inquiry will deal with:

The cause and spread of the fire
The design, construction and refurbishment of Grenfell Tower
The scope and adequacy of the relevant regulations relating to high-rise buildings
Whether the relevant legislation and guidance were complied with in the case of Grenfell Tower
The actions of the local authority and other bodies before the tragedy
The response of the London Fire Brigade to the fire and the response of central and local government in the aftermath

And you think that's not enough?
If you start bringing in subjective political opinions into the mix it will go on for a decade and be as useful as a chocolate teapot.
It needs to stick to the objective facts so we can get a result that can be acted upon and things can be made better.
David Lammy just seems to be trying to hijack the issue for political gain.

I agree. As I have said before, the purpose of the inquiry is to establish the facts and to put steps in place to ensure the same can't happen again.
It is not a group therapy session or an opportunity to have a good old moan at the council, the Government or the world.
Hour upon hour of opinion and griping will add nothing to the enquiry.

I also agree (sorry) stick to the facts. Best way to go

Possibly the enquiry should also deal with illegal subletting and immigration if it's meant to go into socio economic territory? As that's one thing that keeps coming up as a reason for not being able to give exact numbers? Best to stock to the facts I think or it will become a Pandoras box

Completely agree - will be much more powerful to keep to the required scope . They are complex and detailed enough. All the other more subjective political and sociology economic points whilst not unimportant would just delay and distract.

I think they are excellent and, just as importantly, manageable, terms of reference for the inquiry.

Yes there does need to be a broader examination of social housing in this country, but that is a highly politicised issue and including it in the inquiry would bog it down and leave it open to accusations of political bias.

Then it might be better for a separate inquiry to include the scope of social housing to run alongside this one.

Thanks for this OP

The actions of the local authority and other bodies before the tragedy

Hopefully this part of the inquiry will expose the attitudes & corruption within Kensington & Chelsea council
These facts need to be exposed ( Not investing the millions made from social housing in more/current housing but subsidising operas etc with it) then hopefully other councils will learn some important lessons

Narrow Grenfell inquiry too limited says firefighters union.

www.fbu.org.uk/news/2017/08/16/narrow-grenfell-inquiry-too-limited-says-firefighters-union

16 August 2017 Grenfell London, West Midlands
"The Fire Brigades Union (FBU) has said it is ‘extremely disappointed’ that the public inquiry into the Grenfell Tower fire will not investigate the preparedness of fire services outside London to deal with a similar disaster.

Andy Dark, assistant general secretary of the FBU, said: “We are appalled that the inquiry into the worst fire in generations is to be handicapped by such narrow terms of reference that won’t, for example, look at government policy on social housing. The inquiry will be unable to address important issues that will help protect people across the UK.

“It is reckless that it won’t investigate the preparedness of fire services outside London to respond to a Grenfell type fire. At its height, this fire was attended by at least 70 fire engines, known to fire service personnel as pumping appliances, from the London Fire Brigade. The second biggest fire and rescue service in England, the West Midlands Fire and Rescue Service, only has 41 in total.

“The best tribute we can pay to the people who lost their lives is to make sure that a fire like Grenfell never happens again. Clearly, the government has missed a chance to do right by the victims and investigate every aspect of the disaster."

I think it would have been possible - and relevant - to consider whether density of housing and/or overcrowding contributed to the overall death toll, ie: if there had been less people within the same number of square feet, would more people have escaped safely. Was the density within accepted norms ergo should such norms be reconsidered.

For me this disaster has parallels with Hillsborough and the government should be doing its utmost to apply the lessons learnt from the approach to enquiries into Hillsborough, which took 28 years and counting to get right.

I completely agree herethere.

One of the big social housing maintenance companies has reported a dip in profits.

  <a class="break-all" href="https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/15/mears-group-profits-warning-grenfell-tower-fire?CMP=share_btn_fb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/15/mears-group-profits-warning-grenfell-tower-fire?CMP=share_btn_fb</a>

Agree I think the scope is already broad widen it and the facts can get kicked into the long grass

The wider the terms, the longer it will take and the bigger the volumes of text to be
printed and argued over.
This is too important to wait years for a resolution.

Agree with others. The wider the brief the more opportunity for weaselling out of the probable primary cause for the fire, that corners were cut, the building was not properly maintained and that someone somewhere signed off on things that they knew were unsafe. Whether people acted from ignorance, greed or callous disregard needs to be established. Arguments about immigration,subletting,social housing and racism are of course important , but should be in a different forum, this is about safety , not how allocations for social housing are made. Local authorities need first to be ensuring that properties are safe for whoever their tenants are. That should be the priority for the enquiry.

Any recommendations arising from the enquiry need to be specific, enforceable by law and ensuring that responsibility is firmly attributed .

sorry I don't agree. if you include these much broader issues it will not deal with the main issue - that many people lost their lives in a fire

Couldn't agree more.

I've name changed because I work in a property industry which is currently dealing with aspects of the aftermath of this tragedy and, not only that, one of my friends lost a parent in the fire so its extremely close to home for me.

Not taking away the horrendousness of what happened at Grenfell but this isn't about what social class the residents were and how the council may have treated them differently. I know for a fact that high end property developers across the country are having to remove cladding from privately owned blocks of flats because it isn't safe and has breached regulations and testing. Its not just social tenants who've had unsafe cladding erected on their buildings. Let's not muddy the current investigations by discussing a side issue. Let this investigation carry on as planned and the message of safety pushed out as fast as possible and as wide as possible and then, afterwards, tackle any other issues.

this isn't about what social class the residents were and how the council may have treated them differently.

Isn't it for an independent enquiry to determine that? At this time we cannot say definitively that was not a causal factor.

I will say this, unless they get to the very core of what happened and why it will fester and fester and it won't go away. Just like Hillsborough.

Why is this in AIBU? So, yes YABU for not posting in 'in the news' or politics.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/17/grenfell-parallell-inquiry-fix-broken-housing-system