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Grenfell inquiry will NOT be including broader context and attitudes towards social housing tenants.

87 replies

HelenaDove · 15/08/2017 13:44

Statement from Emma Dent Coad.

kensingtonlabour.com/2017/08/15/grenfell-inquiry-terms-of-reference/amp/

The general attitudes towards tenants are part of the problem. Yet its not to be included?!

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HelenaDove · 17/08/2017 22:00

Dunno where you have been Lucy but thats exactly what others and i have been doing.

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herethereandeverywhere · 17/08/2017 22:16

Thanks for that lucy, most helpful and informative. The Trump thread is also in AIBU, perhaps you can pop over there next and point out the error of their ways too.... Hmm

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HelenaDove · 18/08/2017 16:56

The above has parallels to how Grenfell tenants were treated and yet they dont want to look at wider issues in social housing.

Ledbury tenants were/are seen as agitators and troublemakers in the same way that Grenfell tenants were seen as.

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HaudYerWheeshtBawbag · 18/08/2017 16:58

Sorry I don't agree, this is about the Grendell enquiry, not your hatered of social housing Helena!

HaudYerWheeshtBawbag · 18/08/2017 16:59

*Grenfell

HelenaDove · 18/08/2017 17:03

"NEGLIGENCE and contempt of council tenants kills.
We know this because of Lakanal House in Camberwell. We know this because of Grenfell.
Last week residents on the Ledbury Estate in south-east London learnt that their homes could have collapsed on top of them at any time over the last 40 years.
Residents are not only confused and upset by the news, but are angry at what they feel is gross negligence on behalf of Southwark Council, the owner of the four 14-storey blocks.
Not only were their concerns about huge cracks (some so large you could pass your hand through) ignored for decades but when issues were finally taken seriously, Southwark continued to treat tenants with contempt, withheld information and had to be pressed again and again to take action.
After six difficult weeks of investigations and embittered meetings, the council told residents last Thursday that all four blocks are potentially unsafe after they failed gas checks. Tenants can now choose to be permanently rehoused elsewhere or stay in the blocks till next year when work is done to strengthen the buildings against gas explosions.
Hannan Majid, a documentary film maker, and his wife Danielle Gregory were the first people to recognise that the cracks posed a fire safety risk. Gregory reported this issue in June after the Grenfell disaster to the fire brigade, who confirmed that if a fire broke out in her flat it could spread through the cracks to the neighbouring flat.
This meant that the stay-put policy — the measure keeping residents safe in the event of a fire — no longer applied. Despite the seriousness of this safety breach, the council took three days to send a fire official round and only did so when Gregory threatened to call the press.
A few weeks later, residents decided to hold a community meeting in their Tenant and Residents’ Association (TRA) hall over the lack of information given to them by the council. Fire wardens had been placed in their blocks around the clock but with little information as to why they were there and if they were preparing for an evacuation.
Majid explained: “We tried to book the TRA [tenant and resident's association] hall for the meeting and were called agitators. We’re living in that building, we can see loads of people with megaphones and walkie-talkies and endless water being sent there.
“The first thing we think is: are people getting ready for an evacuation? So, of course, we want to hold a meeting!”
At the request of tenants, independent surveyors also came to look at the buildings.
They flagged a potentially catastrophic safety flaw that the council had completely missed — that the buildings may not be able to withstand a gas explosion.
This issue goes back to the day Ledbury was built in 1969. Like many tower blocks of its generation, the estate was constructed using large concrete slabs made in a factory and bolted together on site. This was a quick and cheap method to rapidly address Britain’s housing crisis but came with dire consequences.
Just two months after tenants moved into a system-built estate called Ronan Point in 1968, a small gas explosion blew out the walls causing an entire corner to collapse. Four people were killed and another 17 were injured.
The fact that the Ledbury Estate is built in a similar way to Ronan Point should have set alarm bells ringing at the council. But bizarrely, the first investigation into the structure of the buildings by engineering firm Arup (the same firm awarded a dodgy contract to design the doomed Garden Bridge) didn’t even mention the gas or the structure of the blocks. Presenting their findings to a public meeting in July, the firm declared that they had found “no structural issues” in the buildings.
At this meeting, independent surveyors Arnold Tarling and Tony Bird, the same people who had looked over the blocks, brought up the issue of gas.
“I stood up and asked Arup’s housing director if he was happy that there is gas in the blocks,” Bird said.
“He wouldn’t answer it. Of course, he wasn’t bloody happy! Arnold then asked whether the blocks would be able to stand a gas explosion and if the building would collapse. Again no answers. It just shows that nothing has been learnt from Ronan Point.”
After the issue was raised, Southwark was quick to declare that vital strengthening works had been carried out by the previous owner on the four blocks to protect them in the event of a gas explosion.
But last week Arup announced that their investigation suggested Ledbury had not undergone the works. The gas supply was immediately turned off, residents were given hotplates and told they could use the showers in a nearby leisure centre while they await rehousing.
A statement by Southwark’s deputy leader and cabinet member for housing Councillor Stephanie Cryan read: “At every stage of this investigation, we have put residents’ safety first, and acted on the best information available.
“We didn’t own the blocks when they were constructed at the end of the 1960s, but all the reports we found suggested the blocks were strengthened following the Ronan Point incident in 1968.”
A council spokesperson also claimed that the problems could not have been discovered earlier because the cracks and the gas supply are two completely separate issues. But really the issues both stem from the structure of the building.
Knowing the safety risks posed by system-built homes, Arup should have investigated the gas from the get-go and the council should not have denied that it was an issue. Bird stressed that councils must stop “making assurances based on no expertise.”
Heroic tenants’ residents and experts involved in the unveiling of the issues have expressed concern about Southwark’s reluctance to recognise serious safety failings at Ledbury until recently.
This has left tenants to take matters into their own hands, going to the fire brigade, to independent surveyors and forcing the council to act by applying pressure through the press.
Most of this effort was led by Majid and Gregory, who over the last six weeks have become a lifeline to Ledbury tenants. Rather than going to the council, many residents have turned to the pair for assurance and action showing their deep distrust in the council.
“These problems only came to light due to tenant action,” Bird said. “Hannan and Danielle are truly heroic tenants.”
Without the determination of the pair and without the added pressure on councils after Grenfell, how long would 500 residents have continued to live in blocks that could have collapsed at any point?
Majid feels that they were ignored for so long because they are council tenants.
“As part of my work, we go around the world documenting exploitation of child workers and workers’ rights abuses. What’s happened at the estate is a Third-World problem in London — shiny London. If you’re a council tenant, you’re treated like a third-class citizen.”
Although a disaster has been averted, serious questions must be asked to determine how such serious failings went unrecognised for so long.
Just two months after Grenfell, Ledbury serves as another painful reminder that ignoring the voices of council tenants can have deadly consequences."

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HaudYerWheeshtBawbag · 18/08/2017 17:04

Possibly the enquiry should also deal with illegal subletting and immigration if it's meant to go into socio economic

This is actually being addressed, if you live Ina social housing anyone over the age of 18 living in the properties now has to take identification to there housing offices under the right to rent act.

This is now mandatory, and happened before the Grenfell disaster.

HaudYerWheeshtBawbag · 18/08/2017 17:05

You do love a bit of copy and pasting Helena Hmm

HelenaDove · 18/08/2017 17:05

I dont hate social housing Haud. is that the best you can come up with?

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HaudYerWheeshtBawbag · 18/08/2017 17:07

Really! Is that the best you can come up with, Or are you going to behave like a child, your post speaks for themselves Helena! Not only on this thread but previous housings threads.

BMW6 · 18/08/2017 17:11

YABU.

HelenaDove · 18/08/2017 17:11

Where am i behaving like a child. My posts speak for themselves do they? In what way exactly.

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HaudYerWheeshtBawbag · 18/08/2017 17:14

Yawn I'm not playing this tedious game with you again

Dina1234 · 18/08/2017 17:21

Surely the issue here is one of mismanagement and possibly fraud as opposed to opinions held by the general public? It's not like the public at large had any say in what happened-I'm sure that if the local residents had been consulted they would have simply order the tower to raised and the residents sent to less affluent boroughs.

IrenetheQuaint · 18/08/2017 17:22

The scope of the inquiry is quite wide enough, and actually looks really well planed and thoughtful. An inquiry like this is not the right place for a discussion of wider social attitudes, which is better led by politicians and campaigners.

woman12345 · 18/08/2017 17:46

FlowersOP this thread is invaluable.

Class is even more touchy than race on this island. If the residents had been rich, they wouldn't have died.

In 1979, 42% of Britons lived in council homes. In 2016 that figure is just under 8%.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/04/end-of-council-housing-bill-secure-tenancies-pay-to-stay

Not wishing to disrupt the thread, but this is the realty of a ponzi scheme that is the british housing market, on real lives.

Yes, terms of reference should have included social factors.

HelenaDove · 18/08/2017 18:06

Ta Woman And i agree. Class is a factor.

Of course the public at large arent responsible for what happened Dina.

But surely if public perception has no bearing on anything then why are the SAHM Vs WOHMs threads so long After all they are just about public perception.

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HelenaDove · 18/08/2017 18:51

"Following the news in 2017n has been like riding an out of control rollercoaster. As soon as one story dissipates, another rears its head
with little chance to analyse and contextualise anything that occurs.
Take the news about housing: after the shocking tragedy of Grenfell Tower, an eyewatering number of tower blocks were revealed to have similarly unsafe cladding as the government fire tested samples sent in by councils and housing associations.

May orders national inquiry after 100% failure rate in high-rise cladding tests
Read more
The statistics caused huge alarm: the Chalcotts Estate in Camden was evacuated when it was discovered the panels fixed to the new-build towers were the same as those fitted to Grenfell Tower, which are believed to have contributed to the speed and scale of the blaze. Scarcely had politicians and the public begun to discuss what this meant for the culture of housing and redevelopment across Britain, when another story broke.

The Ledbury estate in Peckham was found to be at significant risk of collapse in the case of a gas explosion. Believing the residents to be in immediate danger, Southwark council began evacuating.

In 1968, in Ronan Point tower in Newham, east London, four people
died and 17 were injured when a gas explosion caused load bearing walls to collapse as the bolts holding together large prefabricated panels
buckled. The image of the tower was stark. From the roof to the floor,
an entire corner had fallen in, like dominos. That the fatality count
was as low as four was a miracle in itself. The collapse caused huge
concern for tower block residents, and the system then used to join the
concrete panelling was outlawed and building regulations changed to
ensure tower block architecture was safer and more robust.

The Ledbury estate was constructed using the same method as Ronan Point but residents were told that the problem had been fixed.

Southwark commissioned a fire safety inspection after residents raised concerns following the Grenfell Tower inferno, and it was discovered that, somehow, the flawed construction method had never been rectified. So for decades, the tower was at risk of the same fate as Ronan Point. It’s unclear how this oversight occurred. But a similar tale emerges: residents had been complaining of safety risks for years before this life-threatening danger was revealed.

Housing costs, supply and a dearth of social housing are cited often as the main issues in the UK’s housing crisis. But how we treat residents and tenants is a stain on modern Britain. The Ledbury and Grenfell residents were repeatedly dismissed when they raised concerns.

People constantly contact me panicked when they are turned away illegally by council housing offices or have issues with damp, leaks, cockroaches and rodents in their homes, endangering their children’s health. In the past few weeks, several women have kept me updated with their treatment after the roof of their Notting Hill Housing Trust domestic violence refuge collapsed. The women had complained for weeks that the sprinkler system was leaking into the ceiling, with little response. When the ceiling collapsed, they were told they’d be moved from Kensington to Barking, where several of their violent ex-partners live.

Since, some of them have been in temporary accommodation. One was placed in a hostel staffed entirely by men and when she caught someone photographing her
through a window, found the manager of the hostel and the housing staff at Kensington and Chelsea council dismissive until a police officer contacted the council on her behalf and pressured the department to move her to more appropriate accommodation.

In the meantime, the stress had caused her post-traumatic stress disorder to
escalate to the point where she was admitted to a psychiatric unit. Prior to the roof collapse she’d felt close to recovery.

Housing associations and councils must accept they have a duty to uphold human dignity and treat residents as they would their friends and neighbours rather than like human detritus. Meeting housing association chief executives, I’m struck by the earnest way in which they speak of their work and how they argue we need to give homes to all who need it and remove the stigma social tenants face. Yet the tales their tenants tell do not match their words.

Some councils are rotten, and so too are some housing associations. Staff on the frontline must do more to genuinely listen and act on the complaints and needs of residents, and less on honing the corporate exterior gloss."

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woman12345 · 18/08/2017 18:53

Good article, and another one by Dawn Foster:

www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/jun/16/help-grenfell-tower-campaign-housing-rights

Write to your MP and turn up to their surgeries demanding to know what they’re doing to secure housing rights in your constituency. Join your local residents’ association, and reach out to others nearby to find out what is happening with housing in your local area

I have used this one:
www.writetothem.com.

woman12345 · 19/08/2017 09:25

I wonder if Jezza is another MN 'lurker' ? Smile

Jeremy Corbyn writes to Theresa May to demand Grenfell Tower inquiry is widened

Labour leader accuses PM of seeking 'to avoid criticism of your party’s policy failures rather than secure justice for Grenfell survivors'

Ben Kentish @BenKentish
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-grenfell-tower-inquiry-theresa-may-letter-widen-investigation-labour-tory-a7899626.html

HelenaDove · 22/08/2017 00:01

Council asks Grenfell survivors to bid against each other for permanent homes.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-survivors-bid-permanent-homes-housing-kensington-council-rbkc-a7905341.html

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cathf · 23/08/2017 20:39

AIBU to think no-one is interested in this?

BubblesBuddy · 23/08/2017 20:48

Who needs an Inquiry when Helena knows all the answers?

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