To be worried about the future of WOMEN'S athletics

[TeamCersei]

Just that really.

I've been avidly following the athletics and have noticed that at least two countries where the competitors are, how can I say this tactfully,? Are of dubious gender.
and guess what. They win the races. Every time.

How can women compete against this?
How is it fair?

I'm prepared to get my arse handed on a plate but I don't care.
I think this needs to be discussed.
God only knows how it feels from a competitor's point of view.
No matter how hard you train, the best woman can't hope to win against'men'

I've been avidly following the athletics and have noticed that at least two countries where the competitors are, how can I say this tactfully,? Are of dubious gender.

I am going to assume that you are referring to how not all of the women competitors belong to the subset of women with an XX-chromosome.

No I don't think it unreasonable to say that the subset of women with an XY-chromosome, or who are intersex, will most likely have a physical advantage over most, if not all of the other competitors. That just is what it is.

So intersex people just...shouldn't compete?

I feel like this is about Brittany Reese after today and there's nothing to say anywhere that she's anything but biologically, chromosomally female. She just looks masculine.

Are women supposed to look like dainty women now to be acceptable to you or can us masculine women get on with our lives without being questioned as to whetehr we have a dick or not?

Of course, one of the side effects of this is that all women atheletes basically get asked, is your vagania a real one and what tests have you done to prove it. This usually now happens when they are teenagers. Which must be fun

That's odd. Because my teenager plays sport at national level and I can assure you that no one has enquirer about their genitals. AFAIK it's sex that the national governing bodies care about, not genitals.

I think there needs to be anintersex/teams caterhory, or that they can't compete.
Why should the rights of few intersex athletes trump the rights of every female athlete.

It's not fucking fair.

This needs to be stopped, and fast.

But how?
It's insidious the way it's creeping into women's sport.
and if a female athlete dares to speak out. What then, shes branded a 'bigot no doubt, ' to shut her up?

I often feel as if we haven't really made any leeway when it comes to women's rights.

So intersex people just...shouldn't compete?

They absolutely should compete.
But why do they choose to compete in Women's Athletics?
You never hear of intersex people competing in the Men's

They are guaranteed to win if they compete against women.
They're not stupid.

They absolutely should compete.
But why do they choose to compete in Women's Athletics?
You never hear of intersex people competing in the Men's

These competitors have been raised as women all their lives. It's not the same as a transgender athlete choosing to compete against women after changing their gender.

Certain athletes born and raised as female have specific biological advantages in sports over the average woman. That's not their fault.

I can imagine that the sporting establishments of certain nations might make it their business to seek out these women and train them and they might go to abusive extents but it's just another example of abuse in sport- it's not a reason to prevent these women from competing, it's a reason to stamp out abuse in sport.

In the interests of disclosure, I'm speaking as a dumpy 5'2" woman with borderline dyspraxia and as near zero fast twitch muscles as makes no difference. Some people are born to athletic success potential and some aren't. The problem lies where the rules are suddenly changed and people who thought they were in the top 0.01% are suddenly recategorised into the 0.01%-0.1% band.

Ah yeah, they're just trying to be horrible and get a leg up despite being likely born and raised as female without any idea of their gender because of surgery at birth, or the fact that they could have a penis and testicles growing inside their body with no idea about it at all.

Intersex is still smothered and ignored by many parents, or doctors just make an assumption and run with it. There's also countless people with larger-than-usual clitoris or slightly different looking genetalia who just don't know.

Maybe we don't hear of intersex people competing in the men's because people don't care about the men who place lower so they just don't get media attention like women.

"The day after her victory at the Asian Games, Soundarajan was called in for tests by the Indian Athletic Federations doctor. The doctor left her with a panel of IAAF-appointed experts, and she underwent a 30-minute physical examination. One day later, she was dismissed from the games. However, she didn’t know why until she saw it on the evening news like everyone else: Soundarajan had been stripped of her medals because she was not, according to the IAAF, a real woman. Like Maria Patino, Soundarajan had AIS. Unlike Patino, she did not challenge the decision. Depressed, she retreated to her rural village and attempted suicide by ingesting poison."

But yeah, it's definitely all about the poor women who may or may not place below them (because many regularly didn't place above medal winners!).

AFAIK it's sex that the national governing bodies care about, not genitals.

Yeah, and professional athletes have to have their urine and blood tested for drugs anyway. Not like testosterone levels cannot be tested right along with that.

"But remember that our hypothetical athlete has CAIS. Her body cannot use the extra testosterone that her testes produce as a growth hormone, which implies that her condition does not confer a competitive advantage. In fact, IAAF regulations stipulate that 46, XY women with CAIS are allowed to compete in women’s competitions.[14]

I have already mentioned the case of Maria José Martinez Patiño.[15] Patiño was a Spanish hurdler and was relatively successful in the mid-1980s. Having forgotten her “certificate of feminity” at home in Spain, Patiño was subjected to a GVT at the University Games in Japan in 1985. The GVT revealed an XY-chromosome constitution and hidden testes. Patiño was chromosomally and gonadally male – but she had androgen insensitivity which made her hormonally and morphologically female."

It might be worth some of you reading up on how being intersex actually works. Even producing testosterone does not mean the body can actually use it or does use it.

Will female athletes start speaking out? Boycotting events? Or will they (understandably) keep quiet and avoid the death threats, rape threats and loss of sponsorship?

I would imagine they're encouraged to keep quiet.

This is the tip of the iceberg.
Intersex athletes will be scouted for before long/if they are not already.

Exactly.
It's all very well people dismissing it, but it's not having an effect on male sport. Only female sport.

YANBU. It worries me that we can't talk about this without being accused of being a bigot.

Yanbu

As I understand it, intersex is extremely rare.

Not that rare.
I watched two races yesterday.
The two intersex competitors, who were competing against women, won.
The women didn't stand a chance.

There are a wide variety of intersex conditions. In total they're pretty common, maybe as much as 1% of babies, but the

OP, you are not being unreasonable at all.

Its just one huge bloody disgrace.

That person who competes in green is obviously a man and should be lining up with other men at the start of a race.

specific conditions that would result in a baby raised as a girl having sporting advantages are very rare.

However by the time we look at the tiny tail end of the curve of the very top performers in certain events, women with that condition are massively over represented.

I don't expect this problem to be resolved any time soon.
I expect the majority of people 'high up' in the athletic world and the people who make all the decisions, don't give a shit, cos they're male.

But, people are starting to notice and people do care.

Yes OP yanbu

But, people are starting to notice and people do care

Yes. I care. Very much so.

Perhaps its time to give people their own intersex category because thats what they are - 'intersexed'. They're neither one thing nor the other and should be competing against each other.

That person who competes in green is obviously a man and should be lining up with other men at the start of a race.

It wasn't just that person.
There was a competitor from Kenya in the women's race, who I also did a double take of.
All the other women had tiny fitting shorts on and this competitor had men's short on.
why

TeamCersei
I don't expect this problem to be resolved any time soon.

If you are talking about the IAAF, they want to reinstate testing, But don't let the facts get in the way of a good man bashing.