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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask what has gone wrong in the UK

551 replies

Mumof56 · 10/08/2017 01:29

I'm talking about the latest sex grooming case in Newcastle. It's the seventh large scale sex gang scandal to hit the UK after cases from towns including Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and Bristol

I have seen nothing on mumsnet about this (although maybe I've missed it). This is shocking and outrageous. How has this been allowed to happen in so many areas? What is the solution?

This is "rape culture". Where are the (peaceful) protests and the show of support for these girls?

OP posts:
Atenco · 10/08/2017 16:14

What a generally intelligent and well informed thread. Thank you Gonegonegone for sharing your experiences here, though I wish that hadn't happened to you or anyone.

I do question the thinking behind the media drawing attention to the ethnicity of the perpetrators and the victims. I really do think it is designed to fuel racist violence. I'm from Northern Ireland have witnessed how the BBC also reported in a way to fuel the violence while claiming that it was trying to stop it.

Gonegonegone · 10/08/2017 16:22

If there is some sort of message going out within that community then it clearly is in every other community in the UK also.

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 10/08/2017 16:29

"Why bring race as a reason into it in the first place?"

How could you not when there have been multiple situations of abuse from within certain communities? Do you really think the BNP or EDL wouldn't notice groups of Pakistani men being sent down for child abuse? If it wasn't part of the discussion in mainstream media it would just be used as another example by the 'alt-right' of the media's left wing bias.

SideOrderofSprouts · 10/08/2017 16:34

Anyone remember haute de la garenne in jersey? That was local men. Children abused for years and years in the care system by people who were
Meant to be taking care of them. I'm friends with some survivors. Their stories are horrendous.

Gentlygrowingoldermale · 10/08/2017 16:48

Some good posts certainly.

“Not all men are like that'; can't argue with that, nor 'Not all women are like Rosemary West', or ' Not all kids are like the Bulger brothers', all true but it doesn't change the fact that two women a week are killed by their partners or one time partners in the UK. NAMALT, adds nothing at all to the discussion.

The idea that there was no such thing as misogyny until foreigners decided to come over here, rather negates the facts. Husbands giving their wives a drunken five knuckle kiss on a Friday night to show their love is not the stuff of legends.

Racism? From the evidence over many years, I agree with, the vast majority of child sex abuse ... is carried out by white men – through the home, through family networks and through the internet. Mohammed Shafiq from the Ramadhan Foundation. Certainly the dedicated Christian who sexual abuse me as a child was certainly white.

In my day all kids were told to beware of strangers – big mistake, the abuse of children and in particular the exploitation and slavery of women in the UK is now endemic.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40885353Some good posts certainly.

LiveLifeWithPassion · 10/08/2017 17:04

I meant race as a reason for the police to have been sensitive all those years ago.
Children are getting abused and the police don't want to get involved because they may cause race riots?
It just doesn't make any sense to me.
It's like another poster said, seems like a weak excuse.

SomethingOnce · 10/08/2017 17:39

PM programme on R4 interesting on this (as we speak) - worth listening on iPlayer if you didn't catch it.

Tw1nsetAndPearls · 10/08/2017 17:51

Most men do NOT rape and while we are on the subject maybe we should be telling this to our daughters as well. The statistics for female on female rape are not pleasant.

1 in 5 women has experienced sexual violence that suggests that a small minority of men are doing a lot of sexual violence or a lot of us are blind to the acts of our sons/ husbands/ brothers etc,

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 10/08/2017 17:51

Ah, fair enough LiveLife. I don't think it was as explicit as that (apart from when there was the documentary they were scared about). More an undercurrent of feeling that they would be accused of being racist if they focused too much on this particular issue. But even more than the fear of racism seemed to be a casual dismissal of the girls. That they had brought it on themselves, or weren't worth protecting.

BertrandRussell · 10/08/2017 17:53

"The statistics for female on female rape are not pleasant"

Still waiting for these stats.

lalalalyra · 10/08/2017 18:04

We have a huge victim blaming culture in the UK imo. There is always an undercurrent of "what did they do?" in so many cases.

Rape and sexual assault almost always comes with questions of "was she drunk?" "what was she wearing?". And that also extends to male victims. Someone my DH knows well was sexually assaulted by another man last year and a police officer ended up being disciplined because of his "how drunk were you?" "Could you have lead him on without realising?" line of questions.

Domestic violence - "What did you do to provoke him?"

Even the jogger that pushed a woman in front of a bus had people questioning what she had done to provoke him.

It's not just women who are subject to this. My teenage son was stalked by a teenage girl from his school and even when the police were involved and dealing with her people were wondering what "more" there was to his "story".

A woman was assaulted locally in a road rage incident and ALL of the comments on the news site were "Well, what did she do?" as if there was a level of driving fuck-up that would have made it ok for a 6'5 man to get out of his car at traffic lights and terrify the shit out of her.

It's more common for women to be questioned because there is so much more male to female violence.

Lloyd45 · 10/08/2017 18:05

You can't get away from the fact that men from Pakistan and Afghanistan come from a country that think women worthless, forced marriages, honour killings, women's name is not to be used not even on their grave stone. Children put into prison for getting pregnant for having sex outside marriage.

lalalalyra · 10/08/2017 18:05

There has also always been a culture of men (and some women, but mostly men) predating against vulnerable children and young women. It's not massively acknowledged everywhere because it would involve accepting that men in positions of trust can abuse that trust and other people in charge are too blinded and/or naive to notice.

Original poster
Mumof56 · 10/08/2017 18:28

The memtal gymnastics by some on this thread is Shock

ar of being called racist is stopping authorities from dealing with child abuse and sexual exploitation, a Labour frontbencher has claimed.

Sarah Champion, the shadow women and equalities minister, said that “people are more afraid to be called a racist than they are afraid to be wrong about calling out child abuse”.

To all those throwing out the waist card, I hope you realise you are part of the problem. People stop reporting stuff in case the are called wacist.

So well done

OP posts:
Gonegonegone · 10/08/2017 18:35

The UK women are valued as at best less than and frequently as worthless.

The evidence may not sound as horrific as fgm (although that happens here too) but is horrific nonetheless. 1 in 5 women sexually assaulted, 1 in 4 victims of DV(including rape & forced pregnancy) 1-2 women murdered each week, sex pay gap, any 'womens work' seen as less & paid significantly less, rape culture, sexual harassment.

Gonegonegone · 10/08/2017 18:37

Lala you are spot on

Mum blaming women here for male violence. Well that's so original.

Original poster
Mumof56 · 10/08/2017 18:45

@gone

Do you think Sarah Champion is also blaming women?

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/08/2017 18:54

Sarah Champion, the shadow women and equalities minister, said that “people are more afraid to be called a racist than they are afraid to be wrong about calling out child abuse”

Sarah Champion is right - though no doubt someone will now parrot that it wasn't fear of being called a racist at all, but a lack of concern for the victims

Anything to deny the real issues, it seems Sad

pigsDOfly · 10/08/2017 19:03

It's not something that's 'gone wrong' with the UK. It's always happened.

Violence towards women is worldwide. Rape of girls and women is a common thing all over the world. Rape of the women among their enemies is a weapon frequently used by men in wars.

Men are physically stronger than women, a great many men are aggressive and violent towards those who are physically weaker than themselves.

It's not a new thing and it's not only happening in the UK. Human beings are one of, if not the most, aggressive, spiteful animals on the planet, and there is, and always have been. a great many vicious, cruel men out there.

The only reason we know now how often this sort of thing occurs is because of the greater coverage of news and a greater willingness to talk about it.

Original poster
Mumof56 · 10/08/2017 19:09

Rahim argued that all of the witnesses testifying against him were liars, that the police were racist and that he was a victim.

The court heard that in April 2014, Badrul Hussain – who was found guilty of providing premises for drug supply – was caught traveling on public transport without a ticket. The female ticket inspector claimed that he shouted at her: “All white women are only good for one thing. For men like me to fuck and use like trash. That’s all women like you are worth.”

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/09/newcastle-sex-grooming-network-operation-shelter

OP posts:
Justanotherlurker · 10/08/2017 19:09

The people who are racist are the perpetrators, if this was gangs of white men targeting another race there would be no qualm in pointing it out and calling it what it is.

Rape culture exists, but there is a more conservative rape culture out there that some people are too afraid to discuss because that would make them agree in principle to some on the "right" and we all know how the left love to shun for wrong think.

The fact that Sarah Champion is now calling it as it is after years of trying to expose the Rochdale scandal, should start trying to push the conversation along. There are a lot of contributing factors, culture is a big one that keeps coming up here and across europe. but some on here would still prefer to stick there head in the sand... it's the same everytime.

derxa · 10/08/2017 19:11

Reading some of these posts you'd almost think the Jay Report had never happened - or perhaps that some think it's all gone away now
Agreed. It's shocking

Tw1nsetAndPearls · 10/08/2017 19:15

Sarah Champion is right - though no doubt someone will now parrot that it wasn't fear of being called a racist at all, but a lack of concern for the victims

It could be both, my impression was that both were a factor.

Justanotherlurker · 10/08/2017 19:21

It could be both, my impression was that both were a factor.

They were, but you have people on either side of the debate promoting one and ignoring the other, things become entrenched and it becomes the usual shit show of an argument, pretty much how all political arguments have become.