To think people underestimate impact of advantages

[brasty]

I think lots of people underestimate the impact of advantages in their life.
So having parents who value education and encourage you.
Having parents who find the best school for you.
Having loving parents who create a loving environment to grow up in.
Getting help with house deposits.
Having a parent who will help you out when things go wrong.

All or some of these things makes it so much easier to have a good life. Yet so many people underestimate the impact.

Beastly I've never had any of advantages you describe (and never will) but I think it's difficult to put yourself in the shoes of others when something is normal for you. I bet highly attractive people underestimate the advantages their looks have given them. It eats you up if you dwell on it

Totally agree. This cartoon says it well.

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

Happydoingitjusttheonce Yes I know it can eat you up. Sometimes I find MN too difficult. Too many people who have no idea how many advantages they have actually had.

We have two very good examples of this in our house in that we have two adopted children. They came from a sink estate and had an extremely chaotic, deprived life prior to being taken into care. Since they have been with us they have parents who have committed themselves to improving the life chances of the children. They have had as much attention and care as we can give, the most suitable education for them, have had all their physical and mental health problems attended to and live in an entirely different environment. It could have been so very different for both of them.

I listened to a really good podcast (freakanomics?) that talked about this in detail. They used the analogy of headwinds and tailwinds when biking. So, when you are biking into a headwind you are conscious of the disadvantage that you have the whole time but when you then get a tailwind you are only grateful for the turn in your fortune for the first five minutes and then get on with considering the next thing that is against you.

I do think some people are worse at this than others but I think we are all guilty of it to some extent.

But I am still staggered by the lack of awareness that some posters are in underestimating their good fortune, assuming that everyone has an equally stacked deck and that they just played their cards better. They pay no attention to how even small differences in health (mental and physical) and circumstance can be leveraged to produce much greater gains.

This is a huge problem when almost all politicians and decision makers come from a very similar privileged background and have no real understanding of ordinary people's lives never mind those who lack having their basic needs met.

I agree OP and it's fairly obvious that environmental factors are hugely influential when you consider that social mobility is pretty poor across the globe, with very few exceptions. There was a very good article in The Economist some time ago about the increasing ability of the "meritocracy" to protect itself from interlopers.

Environmental factors, in addition to sex, race and religion are hugely influential in deetermining life outcomes.

Absolutely. And points 1, 3 and 5 more important than anything. I have known many people from poor backgrounds whose parents would never have been able to do 2 and 4, but their encouragement and approachability and ability to convey that they believe in you has still made all the difference. Dc's schools have been of varying quality, I don't suppose we'll be able to help them with a house deposit, and dd in particular has had some pretty horrible experiences which don't happen to most children, but I do think/hope that we have been able to make them both feel that they are part of a wider group of people who love each other and support each other, and that they themselves have a lot to give, and to teach them that after you have had a fall you pick yourself up and start again.

Totally agree. I know a few people with enviable lifestyles who would have a lot less if they didn't have the families they have.

YANBU. Also in the case of race - a lot of people don't realise the barriers and disadvantages that can face people of colour. It's not a level playing field but if you're particularly privileged you might not realise that.

The media often mention how children from poorer, less privileged backgrounds are at a disadvantage, so i dont think its overlooked.

however, people that have grown up with all the things you mention and more, will probably not come into contact much with the ones who have nothing so their view of the world is totally different and they then think everyone had the same advantages that they had.
I would say i;m somewhere in the middle , my parents were not rich, council house upbringing, a pretty poor secondary education, but they did provide a loving home, food, help towards my first home ( but prices then were not as stupid as they are now!) so it was better than a lot of other people i'm sure, just not as great as some others with wealthy parents and a really good education. I know i was one of the lucky ones, luckier than some, not as lucky as others too. I can see what you mean though.

Absolutely. Ignored by the same people who think luck has nothing to do with success.

cory Without wanting to minimise your daughter's experiences, James Heckman (Heckman curve) did some work that showed that children who face adversity ine arly life but who are supported through it can actually develop v good emotional resilience as a result. He was mainly talking about poverty and illness, but interestng nonetheless.

The influence of money I think is probably more critical at the bottom of the parenting talent curve. I have friends who came from very materially wealthy backgrounds whose parents were flaky as fuck, as in, some of the stuff really beggars belief. However, they got stability at boarding school and basically turned out pretty well, whereas if they'd been poor they'd have been in care. That said, I probably just havent met the ones that didnt turn out ok.

I have had all the things in your OP apart from the house deposit one, and I'm so grateful for them every day.

100% agree. I worked hard for what I have, but I could have worked twice as hard and got nowhere or had it take much, much longer had I not had the advantages that I had. I think a lot of people just take the "I worked hard" part and forget about the advantages that helped too. Also very much agree re those in power needing/ not having a sensitivity to this.

Sorry Brasty, not beastly! Bloody auto correct. My financial situation is not where it should be for my age and income, mainly due to divorce and my desire to be fair (which has been unfair on me) and avoid a fight. I see physical evidence of it everywhere from my house, clothes, what I eat through to the demons at 4am reminding me of my lack of any safety net. I've removed myself from Facebook this summer becausd I can't handle the holiday pics from everyone. These were all my own choices so it's on me. But, I am reasonably healthy and my son is healthy and happy, so I have that x

I think a lot of people are aware of their advantages but there are only so many times you can talk about being grateful or lucky without it starting to sound a bit weird. Also sometimes if people talk about and acknowledge their advantages they are accused of bragging or on MN a 'stealth boast'

The Life Project by Helen Pearson is an interesting read - it's a partial history of birth cohort studies in the UK, which proved time and time again the impact of advantage in early life (socio-economic status, invested parents) on health and life prospects.

I don't know if my last post was helpful. What I meant to say is I'd be better off if I'd taken a different approach to divorce but I'd still have had none of those advantages. And so when I could most do with a safety net, there isn't one. I had a health scare recently that made my realise how fragile my position is and so it's spurred me into positive health action. Something good out of it x

I had an American friend describe the feeling to me once with a baseball analogy. He is black, and lost his mum young. Incredibly bright, kind and motivated.

Basically, he said it was like most of the people he knew, who were white and privileged, started life on 2nd or 3rd base while he felt he started up at bat, hoping to get lucky with a good hit.

Yes, you are MASSIVELY right. The amount of people who dare to preach to the poor about the virtues of hard work and thriftiness when they have had the advantages of private education, inheritance, parental financial help, and a stable, loving home is extraordinary and massively hypocritical.

That sounds v Interesting chickenfray, I shall have a look at that.
The problem is that as well as people making assumptions because they have innate privileges, people make assumptions based on the innate privileges they perceive you to have.
Fewer assumptions all round would probably be better!

I think there's also an underestimation of the importance of peer normalisation. MN can be quite obsessed with "old boys network" and I actually dont see that very much these days. But what is very apparent is the phenomenon I was referring to earlier (self-perpetuation of the meritocracy through normalisation).

e.g.if you grow up with parents whose friends are all investment bankers and magic circle lawyers, your chances of becoming one of those is infinitesimally higher than someone who knows no-one in those professions, despite all other things being equal. Knowing someone who does it doesnt necessarily improve access (no, really, it doesnt, the days of jobs for kids and friends of friends are over in the vast majority of cases) but it does critically improve the perception of achievability.

It's a well recognised phenomena in development- if you can normalise something (e.g. vaccination, girls education) in a community it becomes self-perpetuating but it's hard to get the traction to start with.

YANBU. The idea that hard work correlates to high income is also laughable- unless you think people like hospital cleaners are flying back to their private islands in helicopters after every shift.

There is also a huge difference between hard work you have chosen to do and hard work you have no choice but to do. If you've been able to choose your grueling but highly paid career for yourself, you've been very lucky indeed.