To be sick of victim blaming on MN?

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

I'm sick to the back teeth of reading victim blaming comments on here. Am I the only one who's noticed the tides turning on MN recently?

Heaven forbid women who've been through a trauma wear clothes from their actual wardrobe and don't buy a "victim outfit" to wear in public. It appears they're not a real victim unless they adhere to a certain set of behaviours.

That's just one thread today. I've seen comments recently about what sexual assault victims wear, how drunk they are. Yesterday people were equating raping a woman with a woman lying about taking a contraceptive pill (someone even said this was the same as rape) and not too long ago someone commented that it was Amber Heard's own fault that she got hit by the phone Jonny Depp threw at her because she didn't duck.

If you challenge these comments then you're often called a feminazi, an idiot or a man-hater.

I know this is kind of a TAAT (or several threads) but I'm beyond disappointed that a website predominantly for women would have so many people letting the side down and believing that other women are either lying until they can prove otherwise or that they deserve the abuse they get from men. And if that woman has ever displayed any sexual behaviour ever, then it's even worse.

Ha true decaff the holidays I think turn people slowly mad!

I also wonder if it's because MN is now more prevalent in the right wing media. There's definitely a chance in tone since the DM post their daily MN story.

@Cherry FFS Mum not this again -

You're the one who brought it up again

Mum kindly screenshot where I said sex without consent was OK. Considering I'm starting a thread about how much I hate victim blaming WRT rape in unlikely to be condoning rape on another thread.

I also said that lying about being on the pill and secretly removing a condom are the same. Both have used lies, deception and deceit to attain sex and ignored the consent of their partner. Ergo both are as bad as each other and equivalent

Once again...

If a man and woman agree to not use condoms because she taking the pill, then she doesn't - they are both already knowingly risking STIs and she is risking pregnancy to herself, not to the man as men cannot get pregnant. He has not take responsibility for his own contraception and he knows this.

If a man and woman agree to use a condom, they have agreed to both taking responsibility for contraception. If he secretly removes it then has sex with her, he is risking giving her an STI unbeknown to her and risking impregnating her, not himself as men cannot get pregnant. He is taking away that consent she has given.

Men have been convicted for rape for doing the latter.

In short - one is a lie, one is rape. They are not the same.

I know you think the the former should be classed as rape, which is mind blowing in itself, but it isn't rape, no matter which way you look at it. I can only conclude that your thinking that rape and a lie are equal that you're either a MRA or your internal misogyny is strong.

Mum you have come into my thread and claimed I have condoned rape, when I haven't. Unless like I say you can provide a screenshot??

Not have I condoned a woman lying about taking the pill. Why do you make stuff up?

*Nor

@CherryChasingDotMuncher

My point it made Cherry; in our house, my DP regularly does more than his fair share so that I can go and do other things. Yes, I feel lucky he does this.

I wrote that I'm sick of their victim blaming on a deleted thread yesterday.

Inflicting parenthood on somebody without consent is very very bad. Inflicting pregnancy and parenthood on somebody without consent is worse.

Stratosphere fair enough, although my post referred more to MNers who say they feel lucky when a man has done the dishes as a one off, they are quite frequent.

Yeah, it's his own fault if someone has sex with him without his consent.

On a thread declaring to hate victim blaming

Who said that mum? On this thread?

I think mum is arguing that forgetting to take one's pill constitutes an act of sexual assault cherry

If that's the case I find it alarming that people wouldn't know the difference between sexual assault and not taking responsibility for your own contraception.

I also find it alarming that someone thinks that assaulting someone's body is the same as not taking a pill after having consensual sex. Can't imagine male victims of sexual assault would think that it was the same.

@what

not simply genuninely forgetting, but actively lying about taking it

(but cherry knows this)

So you think that a woman not taking the pill after/aroundsex is the same as sexually assaulting a man on his actual body?

What if she's in a car accident and so can't take it with being in hospital? Would these women being culpable of sexual assault? What if her pill fails, how would one prove it wasn't sexual assault?

I know I'm playing devil's advocate but I'm trying to point out how absurd it is to equate it with sexual assault.

Here's a tip for men - don't wanna get a woman pregnant? Take care of your own contraception, even if she is on her own contraception. Because if she does become pregnant, you have no right to say what happens. It's certainly what I'll be teaching my son.

it's certainly what I'll be teaching my son

Me too

Very effective derail there mum

YOU said it was the same as rape, that people who rape (via secretly removing a condom) and people who lie about taking the pill 'as bad as each other' (your words) Both acts, removing a condom and lying about taking a pill, change the boundaries of consent.

If a woman consents to sex using a condom, and the man removes a condom during sex, the consent is void.

A man may consent to sex when a woman tells him she has taken the pill, if she hasn't taken that pill and she proceeds have sex, then the consent is void.

Rape is not just about STIs and pregnancy.

sex with pill = consent to having sex with contraception
Going on to have sex having lied about the pill = no consent

sex with condom = consent to sex with protection
Going on to have sex & removing the condom = no consent

Making somebody pregnant against their will is a physical assault. That is where the distinction lies.

Except one involves penetrating and potentially impregnating another person different and the other doesn't. One is defined as rape, the other isn't. They're not remotely comparable

Oh! They removed the thread before I got to see if anyone had answered my question! I hate that.

What if she's in a car accident and so can't take it with being in hospital? I think that she has more to worry about if she has been in car accident than sex, to be honest! Add to that, I don't think they let you have sex in hospital.

If a woman was secretly an alien and didn't mention this and laid her eggs inside a man during otherwise consensual sex rendering him pregnant that would also in my mind be an assault. The pill thing - not ok but not an assault.

different I'm talking about if she was in a car accident after they had sex so missed takingthe pill, but fair point with my wording

Or any other circumstance where she missed the pill through so fault of her own. Has she then committed assault? Assault crimes don't really work retroactively.