Are you a feminist?

[NoLoveofMine]

Yes or no...

🙄 bold fail

Male rape is a significantly bigger taboo than a woman being raped so statistics are of limited use.

What is clear is it is men than do it.

They also can't agree on how "empowering" it is to be in the sex "industry". I can't fathom how it is possible to call oneself a feminist yet apparently be utterly blind to the damage that attitude does to women in general.

For example some of the opinions expressed on the LinkedIn thread which was pulled yesterday.

True, mouse but approximate figures are 85,000 females and 12,000 males - so a not insignificant number of men, but vastly more women.

And yes, 100% carried out by men.

I used to be such a 'cool girl' and was adamant that I didn't need feminism because we already had equality and it was just a bunch of hairy, man hating, lesbians (I was clearly quite the lesbophobe too, though of course I would have denied that). I laughed out loud when I read Germaine Greer 'most women have no idea how much men hate them'...

...Then I read the internet.

Death threats, rape threats, endless articles about how women are screwing men out of their money post divorce and keeping the children, MRA sites, MGTOWs, gamergate ... and I suddenly realised that maybe just maybe this incredibly intelligent woman with decades more experience than me was seeing something I wasn't, knew something I didn't.

Happily, the internet led me to FWR which is one of the nicest areas of the entire web and full of the some of the most intelligent posters and interesting discourse. I really can't understand why it has a bad reputation on MN because it is full of really clever people patiently explaining a position that they have thought long and hard about, usually backed up with stats.

So now I'm rad fem - I've been radicalised online

Speaking of feminists whatever happened to Buffy? I loved her posts.

Buffy was banned, I believe?

Really? Oh my goodness. She was so calm and lovely, so smart.

Buffy was banned????????? What the fuck for? Are you sure?

If women cant rape, obviously men will be 100% of rapists. What kind of argument is that?

Yes. Not in a man hating way. I don't believe women can do everything that men can. But I also don't believe men can do everything women can. We ARE different, in our own wonderful ways. And should be treated with equal respect.

Yes - I'm all for equality.

Buffy was banned????????? What the fuck for? Are you sure

I don't believe it. She's lovely, so calm and reasonable.

What is it with all the "man hating"??????

I have never come across "man hating" feminists. I have come across many who hate some of the ways men behave. And, indeed some men because of the way they behave. I have come across people who are very wary of men because of their life experiences.

But surely we can lose "man hating" along with "hairy" and "dungaree wearing" ? Please?

Buffy is an example why despite agreeing with the radical feminist position on matters such as the sex "industry" I do not call myself a feminist.

I found her posts frequently arrogant and condescending. I thought she took enormous delight in introducing topics in academic , polysyllabic jargon so she could then sweetly feministplain them to the thickos.

One her last contributions which sticks in my mind was a series of breathtakingly hypocritical posts about rape and what her theoretical reaction would be if her son was accused

I didn't know she was banned. I assumed she had another one of her flounces. I know she tripped herself up sock purporting by replying in normal non jargon mode under a different name on a thread where she was also pontificating in full on Buffy mode.

Sock puppeting obvs

Feminism has nearly achieved all of its aims. Of course there are some tiny inequalities but they take time to get rid of

Is this a joke?

In the UK alone:

1 in 10 women are raped
1 in 5 are sexually assaulted
1 in 4 experience domestic violence
£1.4billion is outstanding in child maintenance, the vast majority being owed by men, to women.
In a thread currently running a woman explained how her 12yo DD gets shown porn on the school bus by boys and asked if she'd take it up the arse.
96% of violent and sexual violent crimes are committed by men. Usually towards women.

In other countries women have to ask their rapists for permission to abort their baby. This is Western countries.

In other countries woman don't deserve names apparently - they are referred to as 'X's sister' (with X being male) and their names aren't on their headstone when they're buried.

In other cultures women are banished from their community and forced to sleep outside because they have their period.

In what world is this achieving aims? How is this equality?

If anything I think we're going backwards.

The above are facts, I'm not stating them because I hate men, or to piss anyone off, the above is all true. If you think feminism is silly our outdated then I take it you're happy for the above to get even worse?

Every single woman on this thread has feminism to thank for the fact that you can read, and vote, and get a job. The men didn't do it for us, women risked their lives and reputations to make it better for our generation, sneering about how you don't need feminism is nothing short of insulting.

I have a DD and a DS. I'm raising them both as feminists and will be teaching my son in particular that he has to be part of sorting the problem of misogyny (even in little ways in the way he treats women) as it has to be men instigating the change as well as women. He WILL grow up with male privilege, and I want him to exercise that privilege to make a world more fair to his female counterparts.

Those who say "I treat men and women equally" - well, good for you, but too many people don't, and some of us want that to change and won't sit idly by and let it continue to happen.

I don't think she was banned. I think she just disagreed with people

But Lass sometimes ideas are complex, and you do need polysyllabic words, and referring to theory is helpful! Buffy was an intelligent and scholarly poster - and yes, sometimes that's not what you come to MN for, but it's not a reason not to be a feminist!

If women cant rape, obviously men will be 100% of rapists. What kind of argument is that?

Well it's not really an argument, is it?
Not all men are rapists, but ALL RAPISTS ARE MEN.
I wasn't aware that that was up for discussion, what with only men having penises?

What about women who don't have children? How should they feel about the years they don't take off not mattering?

Sorry, are you arguing that women shouldn't get maternity leave because some other women don't have babies I take it you have the same view re sickness leave then?

Women who don't have children don't need maternity leave. HTH 🙄

And you can only take a year's maternity leave in the UK

Feminism seems to be the only group, or movement or whatever, where disagreeing with one feminist can cause people to reject all of feminism!

Nobody seems to apply the same policy to Catholicism or the Labour Party............

To quote Caitlin Moran:
"So here is the quick way of working out if you're a feminist. Put your hand in your pants.

a) Do you have a vagina? and
b) Do you want to be in charge of it?

If you said 'yes' to both, then congratulations! You're a feminist."

Voila.

Reading this thread is quite depressing in some places and I've noticed unconscious sexism in posts where people are explaining why feminism is going too far that highlights how it hasn't gone far enough.

Someone way up thread wrote about how maternity leave should be a right and shouldn't impact on career; but it's only right that they shouldn't be fast tracked up pay scales and given promotions over people who didn't take time out of their career, in order to equalise this. All that is true. But the underlying assumption is still that it is the woman who will take a career break to raise children whilst the man diligently climbs the ladder. Women as carers, women sacrificing their career is still the default. We won't have equality until it is equally as likely to be the man that took the break, and the subsequent career and financial hit, to raise the children. It is the expectation that women will give up their careers that is where the sexism lies, not in their falling behind their child free peers once they take a career break.

Someone else wrote about the education system penalising boys because boys are 'proven' to do better in exam situations where as girls do better at coursework. This is bullshit. Not only the assertion that boys are better at exams than girls (back in the 50s and 60s girls had to get a higher mark to pass the 11+ than boys because if they had used the same pass grade Grammar schools would have been overwhelmingly female) but also because exam boards have been cutting back on coursework requirements for years because it's too easy to cheat with coursework.

Even if it were true - which is a better skill to learn? The ability to sit in exam conditions and write well for an hour? Or the ability to work carefully and methodically on a project long term and keep improving it until you get it right? Which one mirrors real life work situations more accurately?

I watched a review of Wonder Woman yesterday that had a really good analogy in it. 'The system' or 'patriarchy' or whatever you want to call it has acted like a jelly mould for centuries, shaping society & the views we hold, the way we live etc. Recent equality legislation has removed the mould but the jelly society still retains the same shape underneath - it has been held in place too long for the removal of the mould to make an instant change. It will take a long time for society to change shape, these underlying views - women are natural carers and will give up work, girls and dull but dilligent plodders whilst boys are quick witted geniuses who struggle to maintain focus, and that tests that favour quick wits are fairer and yield more honest results, will keep us trapped in the same shape. Equality laws don't make our views, experiences or opportunities equal unless we all choose to change ourselves. The trouble is, the people with power, the people for whom the system works, have a vested interest in keeping everything the same. Hence the need for feminism.

Finally, i would like to apologise to nolove as I have made a mockery of her one word rule