AIBU - 'wife work'

[MrsCaecilius]

Is it just me?

I got married a year ago. Co-habited for a couple of years before that. Since I've had a ring on my finger I've noticed a shift from his family/friends. They now seem to assume that as Wife, I am responsible for all family/social planning. They no longer seem to email/text him to arrange social plans but send them to me instead. Why am I now his secretary?

Household admin is shared - actually DH does do a lot of it because I'm still not great at the local language.

Birthdays and social family stuff? I do my family and he does his. Most I've done is remind him it's Mother's Day coming up.

women are just better at that stuff

Nope newdaddie that's a lazy get out. We aren't. It just all gets lumped onto us. Saying you do it you're better is basically an act of learned helplessness- or 'strategic incompetence' as I call it.

Examples: man does the dishes badly, deliberately so that the women gets annoyed it's not done and thinks 'fuck it I'll just do it myself.'

And then it all adds up. You've probably got a colleague like this, there's usually one in every office. Someone you don't delegate to because you know you'll have to do it all anyway. How do you feel about that person? You probably think they're a lazy git and you don't respect them.
It's the same for housework. There are likely a few jobs that each of you do do better. I'm better at certain bits of DIY. DH is better at anything that involves reading complex or legal Swedish. That's fine. But when it's easy stuff like he dishes, or remembering your mums b day, there is zero skill involved and it's just plain lazy.

And then men wonder why their wives, who have effectively taken on the role of their mothers, aren't gagging for a shag

@NewDaddie

Innate ability with regards to females? Are you serious?

I spent the first six weeks of my life in a SCBU. Did those looking after me think for one minute that I had an innate ability to get on with it and survive?

Demarcation is fine as long as it goes both ways. By all means refuse to help socially with his family but remember as your parents age that it is useful to have someone to share the burden of elderly relatives. One woman I know was adamant about his family, his responsibility until her father died and her mother needed a lot of practical help and support and she was upset by her husband's unwillingness to provide round the clock help. Tit for tat.
I always want to say on these threads that marriage is a partnership and being helpful and supportive to one another is really helpful to the long term health of a relationship.
Often the women indignant at wife work are the ones who don't work themselves, have children at full time school and expect their husband to provide financially, emotionally and physically. Being helpful to one another is a nice thing to do

Women are just better at it - arf! If anybody is writing thank you notes and wrapping thoughtful gifts with their vagina - yer doin' it wrong.

Personally, though, I always have a selection of thoughtful cards for all occasions stashed in my bra. All ladies should.

I certainly don't refuse to help - recently he was physically unable to get to the shops (weeks of working late) so I went and got his mum a birthday present. He asked if I would, I did, he thanked me, she loved it. All grand . If they needed help we'd both provide it, no problem at all.

It's more the default assumption that maintaining the relationship is the woman's job that is under fire here. Actions like birthday cards will be done by whomever has time to pick up a card. The action of maintaining the relationship though, is not my job. I do not need to remind a grown man to ring his mum from time to time. Nor am I his secretary. It infantilises men to do this.

I have a full time, very demanding job, pretty damn well paid, that pays equal to DH. We provide for the family equally. We try very hard to make sure that everything comes out equal in the end. I'm not his secretary, nanny or mama.

But surely 'his' family are now 'your' family now too if you're married to each other?

WTF, by that logic then the OP's DH should be dealing with her mums/sisters/dads/uncles birthdays?

The ONLY way this works properly (from what i can tell) is that either social planning is entirely 1 person's responsibility, as long as they're willing and good at it... or it's every man/woman for themselves and each deals with each other's direct relatives.

At no point would i have been happy to take on the wifework of doing this for DH's family.

i mean, i have had a message frmo DH along the lines of "it's mum's birthday next week, can you pick up a card on your way home tonight when you walk past [card shop]" but that's literally it - he remembers it/arranges it/writes it/sends it. i'm not putting all of that into my brain too!

similarly, i've asked him to do similar for me before (but it's my responsibility to remember when parents and brothers birthdays are).

i was always shocked at families where all this is lumped on 1 person in cases where both parties work/roughly have the same amount of work or hobby time, it seems so old fashioned (and unfair)

it is useful to have someone to share the burden of elderly relatives

Yes, but I'm not sure that's making the point that you think it is - there's another thing that tends to fall disproportionately on women, isn't it? The point is around the expectations that are placed on women that aren't placed on men. All these small actions are good things, they're the things that grease the social wheels and form relationships, so that you have people around you in later life that you can call on for help. But it's predominantaly women who do them, we're rarely thanked or acknowledged for doing them, and people get snotty if we don't. None of that applies to men, because people just eye roll and say "Yeah, men can't do that stuff". To which I say BOLLOCKS.

A man buying his own mother a birthday card is a social experiment?! That's bloody hilarious!

Perhaps your experience is because some of you are younger and don't yet need favours. I am so grateful to my husband for helping my recently widowed sister with all the heavy jobs that she is struggling with. He does so much for her around her house and garden. However, I was always supportive about picking up cards and facilitating his family with get togethers etc.
I watch some colleagues refusing to engage with 'his' family and then wonder why he seems reluctant to be involved with her family.
I can't understand why some women are so determined to lay down the law about 'his and her' jobs and then complain that their marriage does not function as a partnership.

It's not about his and her jobs. I'd do favours for or help his family if needed. They are actually moving closer to us now as they are getting on and we will both help. Either of us will do something if asked. We are a partnership.

It's about maintaining the relationship. I'll pick a card up but it's his job to remember when it is. It's totally unreasonable for a man to say 'you forgot my mums birthday.' It's just infantile. And it never goes the other way. No man is ever told off for forgetting his wife's sisters birthday are they?

Perhaps your experience is because some of you are younger and don't yet need favours

I am not young and I don't ask for favours from my DH. I work, he works, I do diy and so does he. We both do the garden and are responsible for the house. Tasks are split equally which is what I take as a partnership. I don't expect him to do 'heavy work either' as I am perfectly capable of performing all the 'heavy tasks' required in the house. I am not his personal secretary and because I was born female does not make me responsible for 'wife work'.

It's exactly the opposite of "his and her" jobs. I want a marriage where we both put in the work and support each other, not one where I'm responsible for maintaining all social relationships just because I'm female!

Often the women indignant at wife work are the ones who don't work themselves, have children at full time school and expect their husband to provide financially, emotionally and physically.

I don't know any women in this situation - I do know a lot of women who work and look after children and have the same experience the OP describes.

If I'm going to buy a card for Mother's Day I will ask DP if he wants me to pick one up for him - he will usually be happy for me to do that but won't want me to buy a present unless it's just a matter of picking something up that he's already chosen. He thinks it's not really a present from him if he doesn't go to the effort of buying or at least choosing it.

If DP ends up being a SAHP when all the children are in school does that mean he has to remember my family's birthdays? Those are my personal relationships, surely it's my business to do those things for them.

Women aren't 'just better' at remembering a date any more than men are 'just better' at changing lightbulbs.

Totally conkers. I have asked the same question about house work so many times on Mumsnet. I will ask you because of your comment about heavy work. I know lots of couples who take on a 'do er upper' of a house, but I have never yet met a female partner who has re-wired, or replumbed a house. Just out of interest have you done jobs like these? Whenever I see Grand Designs, I notice that generally speaking it is the man doing the heavy duty work. I long to see a woman who has taken on this role.
I don't support the demarcation of roles at all but I see so many threads about wife work and very few about husband work. Most of the younger men I know seem to do most of the cooking etc. Which is great but so often they have stay at home wives who moan a lot but do bugger all.
I think equality of jobs in a partnership is hugely important but I don't see many women taking responsibility for traditional male roles in the house. There is a thread on the feminist chat about SAHMs and how easy it is to be fulfilled as a SAHM and a feminist once your children are at school. It doesn't sit well with me when equality is a one way process and a lot of women still want to work but also don't want to support their husbands by occasionally buying the odd card.
I think there has to be a real shift so that women who for obvious reasons reject wife work, also play their part in financial support of their marital partnership once their children are at school.Or, allow their husbands to take a less demanding, part time but financially less rewarding job to concentrate on their duties at home.

Sorry, should have said, the women who don't want to return to paid work and think it is their husbands job to provide financially

Women aren't 'just better' at remembering a date any more than men are 'just better' at changing lightbulbs.

You're wrong. We are better at changing light bulbs. 35 years of mental conditioning and my superior physique has tuned me into a well oiled light bulb changing machine.

Dame Jessica Ennis-Hill may be an Olympian but even she would be left trembling in my wake in a race up a stepladder bayonet bulb in hand.

It's not 'occasionally buying the odd card', it's being responsible for all family and social planning, just because you're female. That is what annoys people.

And I don't know any men who have rewired and replumbed their own house. Having a penis doesn't grant men the magic ability to do highly skilled work like that without any training or experience!

muddlepies some massive assumptions going on there. I know this thread is much broader than just my situation, but both DH and I work full time in demanding jobs and I actually contribute more in financial terms. So no, the cliche of a stubborn SAHM does not apply.

Also:

I think there has to be a real shift so that women who for obvious reasons reject wife work, also play their part in financial support of their marital partnership once their children are at school.

I don't know where you live, but I don't know any women who are SAHMs to children who are all school age, so I'm not sure what 'real shift' you're looking for here.

Yes! I HAVE done the heavy work. we built our house I did all manner of things (gas and electrics and anything other than quite basic plumbing get left to pros.) I've done heavy landscaping. I've done basics plumbing (pipes, plumbing in loos, sinks, washing machines, that kind of thing.) I've done basic electrics too but I know my limits there and it's much better to get an actual sparky in for insurance and softy purposes, ditto gas. I've sandblasted a cellar out. I've built decking. Last week I planted over 100 feet of hedging.

Dh hates all things DIY. I love it. My parents are the same. Dad cooks, mum has he power tools.

the women who don't want to return to paid work and think it is their husbands job to provide financially

I know no one, not a single couple, who think like this. Literally not one. I mean don't get me wrong if I ever win the lotto I'll be sending my resignation in from a beach somewhere but dh would too. Sahms are not a thing here. I know very very few, and the Ones I do know are all expats without work permits who are pretty cheesed off at not being able to work.

newdaddie I AM shit at light bulbs because I'm short and our ceiling are high, so if you're ever around... 😁

mrsmuddlepies DH and I are probably on par with what we can and can't do. So for plumbing, electrics etc we both do things like change a light fitting, change a tap etc but would farm out bigger things simply because we either don't know how or would need to get them certified etc. But generally if a piece of furniture needs moving or lugging into another room, the drain outside needs unblocking etc I just get on and do it, probably because I lived on my own for several years so had no choice but to do all the jobs.

Equally I do my 'paperwork' and he does his which includes card/present buying etc.

BasketofDeplorables same here. Took us by surprise. How do you deal with it/ feel about it?

as DH has been promoted at work to senior positions, I have taken the view that he ought to be capable of organising himself

EXACTLY. men manage to remember meetings and project deadlines, climb career ladders, understand that you have to build relationships with people who can help you with your career quite successfully. But as nobody will think badly of them if their great aunt didn't get a Xmas card, they just don't care.

Dh's family tried it with me. I just passed them over to him for his family's social stuff. As for domestic stuff, we share because that's how it works. He cooks and shops more. I do laundry more. Both Hoover and clean. It just pans out that way.

I was always supportive about picking up cards and facilitating his family with get togethers etc.
I watch some colleagues refusing to engage with 'his' family and then wonder why he seems reluctant to be involved with her family.

I see what you're getting at here, and it clearly works for you. But in my case, my husband had not sent cards to relatives for years. Once married, I was suddenly expected (by his relatives, not him) to be doing this. It wasn't something he thought was important. They were not used to getting cards from him. After spending an evening like a mug writing Christmas cards to cousins of his that I wouldn't recognise in the street, I saw sense and suggested to him that we each send cards to our own relatives (he had no thought of writing cards to cousins of mine). His mum has commented a couple of times and I told her that he was responsible for them.