To feel irritated when families have multiple children they cannot afford

[Teddy7878]

First of all I accept that no contraception is 100% foolproof and pregnancy sometimes can occur even when people are trying their hardest to be careful.

I also accept that sometimes people's circumstances change and they could go from being financially comfortable to losing their jobs etc during their children's lives.

What really winds me up though are people who actively try and get pregnant when they already have several children and cannot afford the ones they already have. I sometimes see threads on here where people state they have less than £50 to feed a family of 7 for a week and no money at all for any luxuries whatsoever.

My DP and I will be in our mid 30s when we have our first child and we have decided it might be our only child. We want to be able to afford to give it a great life so have saved up hard for a few years beforehand. Between us we earn 65k so we live comfortably and don't have debts (other than the mortgage). It upsets me that we have to make the decision to only have one (possibly two) children and other people are having 5+ kids when they can't afford them.

Money isn't everything, a loving family home is always going to be the most important thing, but if you can only afford to eat lentils and never take your kids out anywhere fun or go on holiday or afford a car or pay for them to do activities outside of school or buy them a few nice things for Xmas then why keep continuing to have more and more children and making your situation even more stressful for everyone involved?! Why not just stick to one or two children?

You could, you know, just focus on your own life instead of sneering and frothing at the unfortunate?

Radical, I know.

@logicalpsycho I already covered this further back. I don't pass any judgements on people living in circumstances like you just covered.
It's awful for them and i give money to two different African bases charities every month.
My argument is only based on British families who don't come from different cultures who are currently living in poverty and will actively try for another baby. I don't agree with it as I don't think it's fair to add another child into the mix if you have about £20 per week to live on. And for all of you asking me who these people are, I see it all the time in my work. The country isn't on its arse financially for no reason

@serfterf where have I sneered? If you bothered to read the thread you'd see that I wasn't passing judgment on anyone who has fallen on hard times after falling pregnant. Nor was I sneering at anyone struggling financially as I have been in serious debt myself. Get a grip!

I must be a really bad parent. As far as I'm concerned once my kids are 18 and at uni /wanting to buy their own house/car etc they can fund it themselves......like most adults do!

Sorry, but if you think your kids will get through Uni, without needing your financial support, then you are in for a nasty shock.

A minimum wage part-time/summer job will NOT fund accommodation, food, books and spends. It just won't.

I get the disappointment op, I do. I did everything you are told to do, study, uni, savings,mortgage etc. I've never earned over 20k and can't do everything I want or have as many kids as I would have liked but getting bitter isn't going to help and it isn't anyone's fault. These people you speak of having less children won't put more money in your pocket.

The country isn't on its arse financially for no reason

Indeed. If the super rich didn't squirrel their money in tax havens, and Top 100 companies didn't hire loophole Lawyers to evade paying taxes, we'd be a lot better as a whole.

This is a tricky issue. Yep, wouldn't that be nice if we lived in an ideal world where people have children only after they have written a long-term budget and determined the number of children they can afford.
The truth, however is, that this is not how it is in the real world.
The fact that mankind reproduced during periods of epidemics, wars, natural catastrophes etc. also ensured that we didn't die out as species. There were children born during the WW2, even in concentration camps, so strong is the mankind's will to reproduce.
Different opinions are one thing. I believe you have full right to believe that this is wrong just like others have the full right to be more tolerant. The problem is when this stops being an opinion only and starts being an official policy which is a state we are approaching very fast.
The Victorian idea of the deserving poor which is going through its revival in the Tory policies at the moment is strongly focused backwards, punishing the current generations and taking away any chances for their off-spring to actually get a decent start in their lives. Where will it end? In slums again, where people live in total poverty, with zero chance to get out of them or in regulation of population where only the "deserving" have the right to procreate and the number of children is allocated based on your financial situation?
It may sound OTT but there's a very real chance this could happen if the belief that parenting can be summed up in money only gets accepted as a default.

@logicalpsycho so the whole demise of this country is purely down to the rich? I don't think so some how! Yes they have a lot to answer for, but so do those struggling to get from one day to the next who PLAN another baby.
It's all a mess

And, FFS, the sheer hard work of raising 6+ kids! The cooking/cleaning/homework helping/running around/noise/mess/school runs.....

YANBU

You sound very unhappy op. Is it stress at work? My family all work in social work/education it's not easy.

The country is not on its arse because of benefits claimants

Oh I've read the thread.

It's sneery.

You're unpleasant.

@serfterf an example please?

YANBU You are advocating for the children who are already born who may not even have her bare necessities met, but many self righteous ppl here will conveniently ignore that and crucify you anyway.

I know someone who already has 3 baby-daddies, but is trying to make another baby-daddy because she really wants to keep the current bf who apparently is THE one (but then she says the same about 2 of the her other 3 baby-daddies).

The country isn't on its arse financially for no reason

😂😂 seriously laughing at the fact that you think the country is on its arse financially because of people having more children. Really.

The whole thread OP.

Nasty, nasty,nasty.

Also racist and ill informed.

@hatesummer jeez, the way people read things and twist them is laughable on this thread. Did I say that?! I said the very rich are contributing to problems with the country too, as are those who keep having more kids when they can't afford them. Those obviously aren't the only two reasons. Would love to hear how that's incorrect

There is a bit of misinformation about what happens in "African countries." First, Africa is a very diverse continent. Not every country is a famine ravaged, HIV rampant, destitute place. Second, and I work in development aid/economics, the money you contribute to those aid agencies very rarely actually go towards what they really need to have sustainable lives. Its not just education, its the structure in government and every day life to sustain the structure. There is also an intersection of religion/culture that will mean that although women know about birth control, even in a famine area, they still will be unlikely to use it. Furthermore, its one thing to offer people birth control, its another to understand why these families have many children. Research has shown that its because of the high rate of infant mortality in their area, meaning they're unsure if that child will survive, and thus have more to sustain a family. They also expect those children to grow to a certain age, drop out of schooling, and help support the family. This is especially prevalent in rural locations, where an education won't really help your circumstances, especially if there's a high cost (not just tuition, but the loss of economic opportunity to the family) for having a child that's in education rather than working to help support.

This isn't a new concept, almost every country in the past (and many currently) have this problem. You see children in the UK leaving school without any qualifications, with no intention of further education, simply because they wouldn't have the monetary support and opportunity to do so. Their mother also may need them to move out of the house, because she cannot afford to have them there anymore.

Hmmm. I think that whilst you're obviously entitled to your own opinion, humans, who use their head and heart to make life decisions, are not perfect.

You're assuming that being in financial difficulty and planning more children equals disaster.....but those children might be the most loved and adored children ever born and their parents might be really good fun.

A wealthy family who want for nothing on the flip side of the coin, might have kids who spend all day on iPads, wear lovely clothes and eat beautiful meals, but who grow up feeling very insecure, have a lack of emotional empathy and who can't manage money.

It's just not as clear cut as you make out.
Just worry about your family......you can't change the entire social system of the world and you certainly can't stop people having babies, no matter what their financial situation.

@serfterf racist?! Where the fuck did you get that from. I'm half Thai and one thing I'm not is racist. I give to charities every month that help people in Africa. I wasn't including people from other cultures in my argument as I understand that there are different reasons for them having lots of children and I don't judge them.

We don't have a problem with very large benefit claiming families in the UK and have had even teenage pregnancies becoming fewer and fewer. Most people do limit their numbers of children.

I have 5 and am a huge net payer into the system as a full time working tax payer. I haven't even used state school places or student loans for the children, two of whom already pay 40% tax. Perhaps we should give massive tax breaks to women who earn over £100k as they are the type of women whose children are likely to earn a lot and pay a lot back into the system and withdraw child benefit from the lower earners!

Why are people on this thread actively trying to suggest that the OP has said something she hasn't said?

Because some always do On any potentially contentious MN thread it's unwise to post anything with out larding almost every sentence with caveats (just as I've included "some", "potentially" and "almost" right there)

And still some will choose to ignore them ...

Baby-daddies when has this crept into UK English language

Teddy I think you need a change of job. Dealing with those you deem to be feckless is making you a bitter person. People's life choices are their own.
You seem to be very driven to be in a position to be able to help out adult children with uni etc but you must see for many, that life choice is a million miles away.
In my day relatively few went to uni only the very very brightest. No Mickey Mouse degrees in those days. The rest left school and found jobs. If you were lucky and sensible you tried to get into the Civil Service or local government. These jobs offered prospects and promotion. If you wanted to learn to drive you paid for your own lessons and saved for a car, usually an old banger. Not being unkind but is £22k with a degree a good salary? I have been both a Civil Servant and a local government officer myself with a fair salary and no degree.