To feel irritated when families have multiple children they cannot afford

[Teddy7878]

First of all I accept that no contraception is 100% foolproof and pregnancy sometimes can occur even when people are trying their hardest to be careful.

I also accept that sometimes people's circumstances change and they could go from being financially comfortable to losing their jobs etc during their children's lives.

What really winds me up though are people who actively try and get pregnant when they already have several children and cannot afford the ones they already have. I sometimes see threads on here where people state they have less than £50 to feed a family of 7 for a week and no money at all for any luxuries whatsoever.

My DP and I will be in our mid 30s when we have our first child and we have decided it might be our only child. We want to be able to afford to give it a great life so have saved up hard for a few years beforehand. Between us we earn 65k so we live comfortably and don't have debts (other than the mortgage). It upsets me that we have to make the decision to only have one (possibly two) children and other people are having 5+ kids when they can't afford them.

Money isn't everything, a loving family home is always going to be the most important thing, but if you can only afford to eat lentils and never take your kids out anywhere fun or go on holiday or afford a car or pay for them to do activities outside of school or buy them a few nice things for Xmas then why keep continuing to have more and more children and making your situation even more stressful for everyone involved?! Why not just stick to one or two children?

I have one DD. I have a movement disorder, a terminally ill brother, and have just been told I will lose my job in 2 months' time.

I would have loved to have had another child but I had an ectopic in March this year so if I'd been 30 weeks pregnant now, I would have been in an even worse scenario. It doesn't stop me from feeling very down about things and wishing I could have another child no matter what. It wouldn't change anything, wouldn't get me another job, save my brother from dying, nor make my life easier. It would bring me lots of happiness but I am not so selfish that I am going to get pregnant now.

Maybe if things had turned out differently, then I might be very happy with another baby despite not having a job. Right now, I am counting my blessings I don't have one on the way as I have too much else to be dealing with. Life - and shit - as they say, happens.

I'll never forget on my street growing up (early 80s) there was a Mother of 6; I was a friend of one of the younger children.
She was bone thin, pale and always hungry. My DM would always feed her with me, so she started to learn my meal times and would always time coming round when my mum was cooking. She never had nice or clean clothes, DM gave her my outgrown ones.
She came on holiday with my DGPs and me once, but my DGM ended up saying never again because she would eat her food, and then ask me if I was finished (while still eating). Things went missing from the fridge and cupboards, she just had to have anything in sight.
At the time I was just too young to realise how bad things must have been at home, but her sisters were all the same- just bone thin and sad looking girls.

The thing is, my DM worked and only had 1 child, so she had more disposable income than the family evidently did. But we weren't rich, not by a long shot. My DM couldn't afford to keep feeding another mouth twice a day.
She ended up losing her patience with the girl's Mum when she sported pregnancy #7. She said she's spent about £100 (a lot of money then!) keeping one of her children from starving, and told her she should actually try looking after the ones she has, rather than bringing another life she can't afford to feed into the world. She shrugged her shoulders and walked off.

That situation is kind of what goes on with the government though on a grander scale, isn't it?
People who are in situations with children they cannot adequately provide for, are subsidised by the taxes of people who are more fortunate.

I believe this situation from my childhood is the exception rather than the rule though. I don't think anyone in their right mind sets out to have more children than they can afford to look after. More likely they are a victim of unexpected circumstances.

YANBU, in a sense. I know of the families of which you speak and it does piss me off.

Although, we earn nothing near £65k, & have two DC & will keep it that way. We earn around £30k & rent our house. Are you saying we should breed because we don't earn enough for a comfortable lifestyle?

This is a wind up, right?

It's a tricky question. You are entitled to your opinion. I don't think a state should intervene on how many kids you're allowed. I think the bigger question is why one full time average wage or even worse, 2 ft average wages aren't enough to provide families with security and stability and some fun in many parts of this country.

Shouldn't, not should

Teddy

Can you not see though that whilst it's nice to be able to provide all these things for your children it isn't necessary and you don't know what's round the corner.
We were struggling when oldest dc were little, not starving but nothing left over.
When FA, then TC came in they really helped.
There has only been a stigma attached to them recently when the mc lost theirs when the cap was lowered from more than 42k to 26k.
There were some very rich people taking benefits, but nothing was said about those.
It's the fact that very rich people have taken the benefits off the poor that should bother you, not the fact that poor/ low income families need the benefits in the first place.
I do think you need to do some homework on the subject.
I'm hoping fees are scrapped or drastically reduced so my dd can afford to attend Uni, otherwise she'll be in debt like the thousands of others whose parents can't afford/ believe it's necessary to fund grown ups.

YABVU.

Stop judging others and focus on yourself.

YAANBU OP but you will get short shrift on here.

Maybe for some women with less education and little in the way of life choices, having babies is they way they achieve success in their own way
I think you are on to something. I only really know one single woman with four dc who is on benefits and they are her pride and joy. She works pt so not exactly who the op means but that sort of thing. They seem happy enough.

I completely agree with you. As a social worker the majority of the children who are subject to child protection plans for neglect are from families with more than 4 children.

Yes absent fathers should be made to contribute but there are plenty of women that don't pay a penny either. It's amazing the amount that claim they cant work and parent yet millions of others do but why work when other tax payers will pick up the tab for you not too.

@melsman when did I ever say that you shouldn't have kids if you can't afford a certain lifestyle?!
I said I'm annoyed at people who have more and more children when they cannot afford to feed the ones they already have. I must have repeated this about 10 times now so far. Would be helpeful if people actually read the majority of the thread before commenting!
Me choosing to have 1-2 kids because I don't want to sacrifice certain things like savings is a choice, just as it is a choice for other people to have children on less money and have to tighten their belts a bit. Neither side is wrong.
What I'm saying is wrong is those who cannot afford to survive properly and keep reproducing because they want to. It's selfish

Op, I agree with you but having children is far more nuanced than perhaps our economic view. I know people through my job whom I would consider in no position to have additional
Children due to them being in debt, having insecure housing etc but they do not take these things into consideration because they know no different. They don't know a life of planning for the future, of saving. University fees and things like that do not enter their consideration. It is frustrating but often the children are happy and well cared for according to their standards and perspectives and they don't view it as their children missing out.

I can understand where you are coming from OP. I live in one of these deprived inner city areas and yes, there are numerous families with what some might call "excessive children". Of course, that's their business and nothing to do with me. After all, what are we supposed to do? Force people to have abortions?

However, a friend of mine is desperate for a second but her and DH (both working FT) simply cannot afford it. I can see how it seems unfair.

. I also understand that in many cultures it's seen as the 'norm' to have very large families.

That includes various native British cultures, you know.

Op, you are being sensible wanting to save, having savings pulled my dh and me out of serious trouble when we lost our jobs at the same time. People are what make life great though not money, if you want more than one child you can do it on less than 60k, it just takes planning. You sound smart enough to do it, stop getting irritated by others and focus on you.

Who are these people OP.
There are very few pockets throughout the UK where 2 generations haven't been employed, relied on benefits and had children.
Look at Joseph Roundtree research it's done often enough.

Otherwise you'll see lots of people working to support their families, some will be able to and others won't.
Most of the one's I know of have fallen on hard times, lost hours, jobs, benefit cuts.
They didn't set out to have children they couldn't afford.

YANBU-people should live within their means. Fed up of people having children they cannot afford

Why not start a thread asking those of us with 2dc on less than 60k for help and tips?

Yabu!

What is this very recent obsession with children needing "great lives"?

They need warmth, clothing, love and some fun.

"We agree we want to give out child a great life" sounds like precious consumerist drivel and a recipe for a spoilt brat, to me.

(Which is COMPLETELY different from "we agreed we need secure jobs and secure housing before TTC" BTW. That's good sense.)

I had a woman just on Friday come into my work for food bank vouchers. She had 3 children under the age of 5 and was asking me to help house her in a slightly bigger home because she's planning another baby. And this is ok how?!

What I'm saying is wrong is those who cannot afford to survive properly and keep reproducing because they want to. It's selfish

Just out of curiosity OP, what are your thoughts on certain African nations?
There's famine, raging civil war, corrupt governments, cholera, and soaring HIV rates. Yet they keep having babies, and lots of them. They can't afford to feed them, even their breastmilk doesn't support the child since the mother is not adequate sustained herself.

There's nothing about civil war, famine and HIV that would make me want to have 9 kids that I couldn't afford, when I had to rely on foreign aid to feed them.

Education. That's the key. If you aren't informed then you can't prevent the inevitable.

Just to add though op, I don't think you necessarily need to plan to financially provide for any children you may have once they go to uni or move out etc. It's lovely if you're in a position to maybe help them with some money toward a house deposit or towards driving lessons. But they shouldn't really expect that from you. I paid for my own driving lessons and test(s!). I worked two jobs while at college to pay for my first holiday without my parents and moved out when I was 18. I didn't want to go to uni, but if I had I wouldn't have expected any financial input from my parents.
Please don't get me wrong, my parents have helped out hugely when we bought our first house etc. But I didn't expect them too and I sincerely hope they never planned their finances to help me or my siblings out when we grew up.

I think the bigger question is why one full time average wage or even worse, 2 ft average wages aren't enough to provide families with security and stability and some fun in many parts of this country.

Absolutely agree with this.

But also, we have three DCs and we can afford them. But the idea of having fourth is horrifying. We would be seriously up shit creek for money if we had an accidental pregnancy.

When things are precarious money wise, I don't understand how it's not so terrifying that people are put off.