To feel irritated when families have multiple children they cannot afford

[Teddy7878]

First of all I accept that no contraception is 100% foolproof and pregnancy sometimes can occur even when people are trying their hardest to be careful.

I also accept that sometimes people's circumstances change and they could go from being financially comfortable to losing their jobs etc during their children's lives.

What really winds me up though are people who actively try and get pregnant when they already have several children and cannot afford the ones they already have. I sometimes see threads on here where people state they have less than £50 to feed a family of 7 for a week and no money at all for any luxuries whatsoever.

My DP and I will be in our mid 30s when we have our first child and we have decided it might be our only child. We want to be able to afford to give it a great life so have saved up hard for a few years beforehand. Between us we earn 65k so we live comfortably and don't have debts (other than the mortgage). It upsets me that we have to make the decision to only have one (possibly two) children and other people are having 5+ kids when they can't afford them.

Money isn't everything, a loving family home is always going to be the most important thing, but if you can only afford to eat lentils and never take your kids out anywhere fun or go on holiday or afford a car or pay for them to do activities outside of school or buy them a few nice things for Xmas then why keep continuing to have more and more children and making your situation even more stressful for everyone involved?! Why not just stick to one or two children?

Well I think folk should research government cuts and the two child rule etc

YANBU. It's always the immature types who do it.

Isn't Tax Credit and Child Benefit now capped at 2 children?
It isn't being removed from people already in receipt of it, but the warning is there in the cap, "If you choose to have more kids now, it's on you to ensure you can pay for them"

If that's what you think you would be wrong.

The two child limit for tax credits may not include children born before April 17 but on UC it does.

Whilst a years protection is currently in force for larger families from being taken to UC that is only until the end of 2018 after that point if they lose transitional protection for example by a temp loss of entitlement due to earnings then it's two kids full stop as soon as they are over to UC

Ah good someone's done some research, thank you for your post Need
A member of my family always disrespected me when I had to claim but I didn't notice this individual offering to help when I was in a refuge or when I was suffering dv.

I find bad parenting worse tbh ild rather see a happy large family with a responsible mother than what I saw the other day!
Off topic sorry
Two year old baby girl crying having a paddy on the street outside the school and mother yanking her up by her ponytail and throwing her in her push chair SHOCK now these parents should not be encouraged to have more not good mothers

Why should it only be where people have three plus children? Why shouldn't we say nobody should have children they can't afford easily?

We could stop child related benefits to families except perhaps disability allowances (although they are increasingly difficult to come by). No tax credits, no more housing benefit for families than for couples or singletons, no free school meals, no half price travel or school travel for children, no free prescriptions for under 16s.

I'm not sure it would be a very nice world to live in though. We need a younger generation to support an increasingly elderly population and need to make sure the brightest families have more children too.

^"Only afford to eat lentils" LOL that tickled me 😂😂

Crumbs, we do need a younger generation but we need them to be taxpayers rather than taking from the system.

You could easily scrap all child related benefits and put the money into childcare and education. Outcomes for children would be better, we wouldn't have another generation of work shy adults and people would need to support any children they chose to have which should be a parenting basic anyway. That way people can have as many or as little as they like but would have to finance that choice alone so would take more responsibility.

Awaywiththepixies27 yes I just don't understand it. I get the feeling of wanting a child together in a relationship sometimes but her dp already had 2 children by 2 different mothers and the kids were both under 5. Now he has 2 with her and it does make me wonder if he'll stay around. I just can't imagine having 7 kids between me and my dp! Especially if I was on 100% benefits.

I have 2, my dp has 1 and we decided that was enough. We can happily raise the kids we have (which is bloody hard!) without needing one between us.

no half price travel or school

What on earth do you think getting rid of free school travel would achieve? You do realise most school travel is free because of the distance and has nothing to do with families incomes?

Sorry crumbs, I just realised I've taken your post out of context. There's been so many benefits bashing threads on here the last few days my mind is getting mangled!

I was exactly the sort of mother the OP is talking about.

I was using help from every turn. I had five kids and was on benefits. Had loads of kids really close together.

I couldn't feed myself properly and there were lots of nights of beans on toast and candle picnics because I couldn't put the electric on for a light. Early bed with loads of blankets.

I had a partner - he was in a minium wage job and we claimed tax credits and child benefit. I couldn't go to work even with the help to pay for child care it was too expensive and I wanted more and more babies.

Bt I had an emotionally deprived up bringing and at the age of 16 I was kicked out on my own. I sofa surfed and then fell in with my boyfriend and I wanted someone to love me so I had a baby and another baby and another baby.

He turned out to be not such a great choice, the boyfriend, but I didn't know that at the start and then when it was really really awful and he and I were rowing I had another baby and another baby.

You would have judged me OP. On benefits and having baby after baby when I couldn't properly provide for the ones I had. You really would.

I was suffering from the emotional fall out of how I had been brought up. He turned out to be emotionally abusive too - that's what happens, the pattern repeats. People like me are conditioned to pick people like that, you see. That's how it works.

and what do you think you judging me would achieve? Does it make you feel good to say I am a shit mother and you are better than me? Don't you think I know that? don't you think I know I made bad choices that my kids had to suffer for

I did and am doing my best - I have left the partner, got a job, am going to tech. My kids are all going through school and doing well, two are out and finished and working in decent jobs. They don't appear to be making the mistakes I made and I have worked very very hard to be a good parent and to make sure they aren't treated like I was.

But really, Op, what do you expect me to do? They're here, I can't give them back. Should I shove them back up my chuff? I can't undo what I did I can't turn back time - and I can't say I wouldn't do it again because that is to belittle my kids and I love them with all my heart and soul and would do anything for them.

I hope you feel good to know that you have made me feel crap.

YANBU.
Yes, some situations change and people have different ideas of what living comfortably means but there's a lot to be said for thinking before having babies.

Eg old acquaintance, now married but for the last 5 years Facebook documents every falling out, why he is a bad BF / DH, bad dad etc. Then they make up and engagement/re-engagement/baby is announced. They're on 4.

E.g. friend from school, every relationship starts well, leads to baby announcement and then there's a break up sohe finds a new man. 4 kids. 4 dads. And so it will continue.

E.g. friend of mine at school was the eldest of 5 and parents kept having more so by the time eldest was doing GCSEs she was acting as a 3rd parent to the new babies. In that situation it was seen as a virtue to have lots of kids and not very much money in their church. As each child grew up, all the girls got married and we're pregnant within 3 months. They'll probably also go on to staying at home, husband on low income and having 5+ kids.

I don't mind big families at all as long as the kids are looked after and they aren't to save the parents relationships.

Rainbow

We don't tend to have child tax payers. Because they are kids and we have laws against child labour

My MiL had 7 children. 2 died from starvation because she lives in a high conflict, arid region and is rural and poor. She could only afford to send 1 child to school.

My DH taught himself to hold a pencil/read/write aged 27 whilst working full time. He only has 1 lung because he had TB and couldn't afford decent treatment

My DH has brought clean water, electricity, stability, education, birth control, sanitary protection to a community of around 100 people.

Looking back through history you never see people who were born into comfort and wealth REALLY doing the things which make a difference, do you?

I greatly admire those who raise a family in adverse condition. I really do wish we could some how prevent arseholes from procreating though

LogicalPsycho sorry I missed your other post.

Council tax benefit was scrapped. In its place is something called council tax support and it doesn't cover a persons full CT bill and not all Local Authorities have it. Many local authorities prioritised what they'd need and whether they thought it beneficial. Here, they applied for a grant to covet the costs and now where people wouldn't be paying anything before they now have a few hundred quid to pay instead.

I think you do get people from all walks of life helping e.g. Elizabeth Fry, Dr Barnados

Great what your dh did

Well, we actually need people to breed to keep the human race going. I remember reading that every person would need to have three children to maintain the current population. So, if you think of all the people who have 1 or 2 children or none at all, the larger families are making up the shortfall.

I can't get worked up over people on benefits having large families. After all, child benefit (family allowance as it was then) was a way of encouraging people to have larger families after the first world war killed so many.

I'm 99% certain I conceived and Lost my job on the same day...
Not really sure what I could've done there. Should I have abstained/got sterilised when I found out Jeremy Cunt was shitting all over the NHS and my department might not be able to keep us all after review? 😂

I might end up claiming income support because no one really wants to employ a woman who will be over 20 weeks pregnant when they start. But I will get back to work, eventually.

^I suppose what I'm trying to point out is, first, my pregnancy was unplanned and second, up until that point DP and I had a great quality of life and were fairly financially stable.

I don't think that the mindset is actually "having children your can't afford" but more "this is our hand let's make the best of it" iyswim

Bingo - You won't be able to claim Income support if you have a partner. Sorry to hear about your job.

I've been reading a book by a GP who practised in prisons and the tougher areas of a UK city (he doesn't say which). In one of the early chapters he talks about the women who consult him about where they made their mistakes on reproductive choices. Many ask whether they should date a new man, asking Would you choose him as a parent to your child? In a lot (not all) cases, he thought that slowing down the mating process would save lots of unwanted child bearing that was destined to flatter the male ego about being a big man. If you have little or nothing material, then lots of kids apparently secures your legacy, except that it's poisoned and doomed to poison future generations.

YANBU at all but that sort of sensible opinion often gets flamed on here

I couldn't agree with you more. Children are like everything else in life, have what you can afford

Not aimed at all at unfortunate situations where contraception fails, circumstances change etc. But at situations that are 100% within our control i.e. Don't be trying for another child that you can't afford. Completely and utterly selfish and irresponsible

And don't even get me started on the 'accident' where contraception wasn't used. It isn't an accident, you as an adult made a mistake, you took a risk, it didn't pay off. It isn't an accident

has 3, with 4 different dads. That's a first, even on MN!

badmother

Please change your user name, you are not a bad mother.
You grew up without good role models, you have loved and raised your children the best way you can.
Picnic with candles and warm blankets sounds very resourceful, a bad mother would have neglected her children, but not you.
I'm so sorry it's been tough on you and your kids, I hope things look up for you all

Theodore Dalrymple @OCSockOrphanage?

He's a wonderful mix of incisive and clueless but he's always a very good read.