We're going to have to call a halt to Brexit aren't we?

[Hufflepug]

Lukewarm Remain voter here. Understand that the Government has to listen to 'the will of the people' and all that.

But for the love of God, now that it's clear what absolute economic suicide we're committing surely we've got to put a halt to it whilst the govt and the opposition work out what the fuck's going on!

AIBU

Trying to be objective, staying in The EEA would make Brexit bearable economically (if pointless). It would leave virtually no one happy but would be the least suicidal while also being least damaging to people's perception of democracy.

Currently that doesn't look like an option but it it may become an option when it starts to look like the only sustainable "compromise".

But neither does the EU want to cut off its nose to spite its face

If I were a leave voter I'd definitely want another referendum to clarify that leave means what I thought it did.

If I voted leave to get control of UK borders ( as many many did) then I ain't getting that, am I? Nothing close.

Um 70 or 80k is rich. Do you know what the average income is? But hey as long as your dh and the tiny fraction of the population on 70/80k are ok all will be well.

Yes but at least Blair and Brown invested in the health service and education

Any fool can borrow money to spend.

The people I'd like to hear from are Remain voters who backed the rather more fashionable cause of Scottish independence.

Because if you think Brexit will be tough, just imagine the utter shitstorm that would befall Scotland if it became independent.

As for Brexit itself, the economy is one thing; sovereignty and democratic accountability is another. One doesn't trump the other. If Brexit is really going to be as fiendishly complex as claimed, it would seem those who claimed Britain was ceding its sovereignty bit by bit to Brussels were absolutely right. And sovereignty and democratic accountability are important, even if they're prayed in aid by windbags like Farage.

And as for those who claim that the UK will become a right-wing hellhole: stop behaving like battery hens. It will depend on what sort of government you choose to elect. You will be able to elect a government with a nationalisation programme, for example, without it being stuck down by the ECJ. Up to you.

As for Brexit itself, the economy is one thing; sovereignty and democratic accountability is another

We have democratically elected European MPs but no one bothered to turn out and vote fore them. Democratic accountability is there. As is our sovereignty.

Well kazzy I think many of us would rather the government threw money (borrowed or otherwise) at the NHS and education, rather than bribing the prehistoric DUP to keep them in power.

Or maybe that's just me?

Blair and Brown lol.

There were developed countries whose banks didn't nearly go into meltdown: Canada, Oz, NZ for example. Why? Because regulations forbade them from investing in the dodgy rubbish UK banks went for.

A situation made worse by the fact that membership of the Single Market allowed the UK economy to become unbalanced, by the City becoming the EU's banker.

MEPs are elected off a closed party list. No one chooses the individuals who go to the European Parliament except back room party goons. They are not democratically elected. They are also not accountable and no one really knows who they are, nor the remote institution to which they belong.

Labour's borrowing was low at first because they governed mostly during a sustained boom.

In other words, at a time when one would expect government spending to reduce, because unemployment benefits wouldn't be needed so much.

But no. It went up, and then massively up because the banks had to be bailed out.

Toad, how is that different to parliament elections?

I'm really not sure the EU will be as ready for the negeotiations aa we think.

Yes they seem together just now and seem hellbent on making the UK suffer. But compromises will need to be made on both sides.
And the compromises that the Germans / French will undoubtedly be unbudgeable on will not suit the Eastern Europeans etc. They have 27 very different countries to keep happy.
I think we will see a lot of in fighting in the EU. They may manage to keep it in house. They also have that clown Junker who does nothing but damage the EU when he opens his mouth.

If Britain can be strong at the negeotiations then we maybe could do Okish at the negotiations. If only we had strong leadership............
I really have an issue with the EU now. I think we're crazy for leaving. We should have continued to reform from within. I think over time we would have got more and more support.

However stupidity has dictated that we leave the EU and I think it's to far gone now for us to stop it or want to stop it.

They will miss us - no doubt about it. And there will be a massive black hole in their budget.
I really also think the EU hs just plucked a figure out of air that we have to pay (no confidence they have the capability to do anything else).
They know it will be negotiated down. Let's just hope the UK can pay a fair amount - not what the Eu want

Um 70 or 80k is rich.

It definitely isn't in London.

MEPs are elected off a closed party list. No one chooses the individuals who go to the European Parliament except back room party goons. They are not democratically elected. They are also not accountable and no one really knows who they are, nor the remote institution to which they belong

Jesus fucking wept. Typical Leaver 'logic'.

And as for those who claim that the UK will become a right-wing hellhole:

Already well on its way. Brexit is a right wing wet dream.

No country has this mythical level of sovereignty that leavers bang on about. We all compromise and work together to make things better for ourselves, because we exist in a system with other countries. Usually countries band together in various blocks to increase their power and influence. Once we leave our block we will have to follow the rules set by everyone else.

Sometimes countries fall for their own myths and decide that all previous UK governments have spent 40 years making the country poor and week, because ... Well we're not told why, but it's definitely true that Labour and Conservative governments hate their country so much that they conspired to give up power and influence to the foreigns.

Just read this about Labour's attitude to Europe over the years. Fascinating.

tidesofhistory.wordpress.com/2017/07/29/the-end-of-a-thousand-years-of-history-labours-long-march-to-brexit/

It was a stupid thing to do a YES/NO vote on, in the first place and such a tiny majority was never a mandate.

Theresa May doesn't have the balls to admit it's all an economic catastrophe and is a dead woman walking - tories are just waiting for her to take the blame for the abject failure of Brexit, then it will be their usual Night Of The Long Knives.

The electorate are too lazy to vote again and it was only ever 'advisory' anyway, so anyone with half a brain in power could easily have batted it down.

Whole thing is - like the election of Trump - a farce.

Farage always was the nutter muttering whilst nursing a pint and the fact he got people to vote for this crap, is something of an aberration. Any politician who would now stand up and say "This is crazy - let's pull the plug!" would get my vote.

I've never seen so many spineless people in my life as those MPs who voted this rubbish through, whilst standing up, one after the other, to say it was economic suicide. The tories might have "had enough of experts" - but they've never been known for their intelligence.

Genuine question but what are people scared is going to happen?

I'm afraid of being deported. We live in another European country and I have residence rights through my husband's British passport.
That's all out the window now, and nothing is being offered as far as right to remain.
I am in a constant state of fear; I've built a life I love here, learned another language, my son is bilingual, and we could lose everything.

Can I ask a genuine question here please? The EU are demanding this huge and final bill from us but I read somewhere recently that they would have to compensate us for our share of the EU assets, like buildings, wine cellars, etc. which would almost equalise that. Anyone know about this? Is any of that true?

No, from what I have seen the EU is prepared for the negotiations and is ready. The British on the other hand have paid only lip service so far, and in fact seem to have just gone on holiday.

There are many, many layers to all of this. The above is important.