To ask what single sex spaces mean to you?

[Thisisouting]

Why are single sex spaces important to you as a female?

My almost 6ft tall DP is no harm to anyone either however he still always crosses the street if he's walking behind a lone woman at night.

Interesting inkzooka. I was under the impression that women couldn't be charged with rape in the UK. The legal definition of rape in this country is penetration with a penis without consent.

It is becoming apparent to me that they could have paraphrased or something (as in, the friend who told me what happened when I was ready to actually ask and absorb the information). I was pretty absent with anxiety and dissociation after everything.

What everyone else has said privacy, security and dignity etc

As some others have said i would have no problem in seperate cubicles for changing and toilet

inzooka

Personally I am ok using unisex facilities. For instance our swimming pool has a unisex are with cubicale and a male and a female group change.

Whilst I personally opt for changing in cubicles I am not phased by male or female nudity when people opt to nut use the cubicles I feel relatively confident I can either tell and/or successfully ignore anyone who was attempting to use nudity as a form of intimidation.

As far as my Dds go however when either I or dp send them to the ladies loo I expect it to be a ladies loo.

When they get changed in the group change at swimming I expect them to be doing so in the presence of other females. They are younger and far more vulnerable.

I hope to never need one but I would also hope a women's shelter was just that. A women's shelter.

I guess ultimately I want to be able to make an informed decision. So if I choose unisex I do so in full anticipation of seeing anyone and every one.if I choose single sex as I would when with my children I expect the security and the increased likelihood of safety in the space being single sex.

Isadora, have you actually seen the so-called curtains in the average nhs hospital?
They give about as much privacy as a pole dancers thong. And that is before the staff fling them open every two minutes...
As for urinals, gross or not, they are there, in every public man's loo ever. I have seen penises before, I just don't want to see one unless I choose which one, iyswim.

I'm shocked by the feelings against men in general

Yet people always insist how transwomen can't use the mens toilets because it's too dangerous in there and how we're very likely to get attacked in there.

my big strapping 6 ft 3 son is no risk to anyone so why would him being in the changing cubicle next to you at the pool be an issue?

I have never hurt anyone either and never will but I'm not up myself enough to think that gives me any right to barge into the womens changing rooms or toilets.

*insist that

If I talk about how I don't feel comfortable in the mens toilets because I'm worried about being attacked then I'm given sympathy, understanding and nobody questions how I feel.

When a woman talks about how she doesn't feel comfortable letting men into the womens toilets because she's worried about assault then she is mocked, given no sympathy, is branded transphobic and a man hater

I'm not bothered about 'single sex spaces' as I tend to think of women and men as people, rather than as separate species which have to be segregated and protected from one another.

@BonnieF

Rape crisis centres
DV shelters
Sports
Prisons
Communal changing rooms

I think I now understand "virtue signalling"

To some people, clearly very important. To me personally, not really important at all.

Also, someone earlier mentioned Brownies, Girlguiding is a single-gender organisation, not single-sex and has been for a long time. Falling in line with quite a few other WAGGGS member organisations (I believe)

It's not just about having to be protected either; it's about dignity and privacy.

Like I said before, my DP is lovely and would never hurt anyone however he wouldn't dream of using female facilities on the basis of "well, I'm not going to hurt anyone, why do you care?"

I trust my dad completley and I know he would never hurt me but I still wouldn't want to get changed in front of him and because he's a lovely guy he respects my right to privacy and boundaries.

Just about everyone on this thread will have been brought up since childhood with the majority of single sex spaces were appropriate

So its a fat load of good saying 'i dont see why we need single sex spaces' or 'i dont have a problem with communal ????'

Because most of us have never had to experience it, we have never had a problem as its always been the case

And i am including myself in that, i have no problem with a separate changing cubicle but my friend is a bit more wary as a man stuck his head through the gap in hers once...

Somewhere I can pull out a tamping and lob it in the bin?

or at least a place where I can have a wine fuelled discussion about why that's weird/not weird

tampon, obvs.

All the reasons everyone has already said, plus a group of women is just different to when there is a man/men there. It's hard to explain but everything kind of subtly changes, and not in a good way.

Curry your input into these discussions is so incredibly valuable and I want to let you know how much I appreciate it. Thank you for being one of the trans voices that stops this being an "us vs. them" discussion and gives the lie to the accusations that those of us who are concerned about the erosion of women's protections and opportunities must be speaking from a place of intolerance and hatred. I imagine that participating in these threads over and over must take some sort of emotional toll on you (as it does on others for various reasons) yet you keep coming back to express solidarity and vindicate the rights of women to be heard and taken seriously. Thank you.

It may not be personal to your lovely son isadora (who I am sure is lovely) but other rapists and abusers were somebody's son. I'm sure if you think about it you can think of (at least) one man you have met that you wouldn't have felt safe or comfortable changing/ peeing/ sleeping next to or just being in the same room as.

It isn't all men, lots of men are lovely and kind and gentle. But it could be any strange man. And sometimes it is men we know :(

I agree that there is that often unconscious ease that you can feel in a single sex toilet or other female space. Even if you aren't escaping from actual violence, just from leers or looks or comments,. Or sexist remarks or attitudes. Just plain old healthy sexual tension even!!

It is one thing being amongst male and female friends, family or acquaintances, but being out amongst public/strangers, particularly in quite male dominated environments, is sometimes just subtly draining.

If I was leered at by a lesbian whilst changing I'd be massively pissed off and probably say something as I would (unconsciously) fancy my chances even if she became violent aggressive - but would I challenge a man who was leering? Not unless I was in public. And only then because I am sometimes a foolish fiesty so and so who forgets how strong men are. Many other times I'd just feel afraid.

Well said Coco... I really appreciate Curry's sensible and calm posts.

Sports. Communal changing rooms which are open plan. Women's shelters (DV, homelessness). Women's prisons.

Way before I became aware of trans issues, I had a long think about this in the context of sexuality. I played a lot of football and regularly showered with team mates who were lesbian, and never felt fazed by it at all. On the other hand when a good friend who was gay wanted to do head and shoulders shots of me with his new camera (he was a photographer) I shooed him out the room while I wrapped myself in a towel - even though I knew there was no way he'd ever find me sexually attractive. And I concluded that I was very strongly socialised to feel uncomfortable about being naked in front of men - and it wasn't a sexual thing at all. (Since then, as I've read more and thought more, I've realised that the sheer size and strength disparity, coupled to the massive difference between male and female offending rates, means this socialisation isn't an arbitrary thing, it's grounded in genuine issues of power, risk and probability of violence. NAMALT of course, but enough to make it a real problem.)

DV shelters, sports, toilets & changing rooms, hospital maternity wards. Mostly I want myself and expecially my DD to feel safe in knowing some spaces are reserved for her and other girls. I want her to know that her safety and privacy is protected and not thrown down the toilet for the benefit of a few leaving her at risk if harm.