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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what single sex spaces mean to you?

206 replies

Thisisouting · 28/07/2017 20:38

Why are single sex spaces important to you as a female?

OP posts:
MOIST · 28/07/2017 21:53

I wouldn't use a communal changing room whether all female or mixed. If there weren't separate cubicles I simple wouldn't go.

VestalVirgin · 28/07/2017 21:54

Perhaps a better question might be 'what are the reasons for not have single sex spaces?' I really can't think of any. It wouldn't improve anything, surely?

Not for decent people who just want privacy to change clothes or pee.
The needs of parents who have to accompany older children of the other sex would be adequately covered by adding unisex spaces to the single sex spaces.

But for exhibitionists and other perverts, there's obvious advantages to the complete removal of privacy. Hmm

ethelfleda · 28/07/2017 21:54

*araiwa

Ftse100 boardrooms*

Funny... but depressing at the same time

yallcrazy · 28/07/2017 21:57

Not for long of course, as Boards being ordered to be more diverse can draw short straws for who registers as a woman.

(I'm only half taking the piss here, as it's not a completely unbelievable idea!)

WappersReturns · 28/07/2017 21:59

For me they mean the difference between leaving the house or not for the most part.
Until recently I left the house no more than 3 times a year due to severe PTSD and debilitating anxiety. I've had the kind of life people would call troll on if I tried to explain.
Coupled with a physical impairment that restricted the kind of exercise I could do I've pretty much vegetated for the past 5 years.

Very recently I've been able to take advantage of a female swimming class after much therapy and medication. It's changed my life in such a short time even though I don't feel up to it every week. It's a start!

I still can't answer the door or phone on the off chance it's a man, not in the slightest because I suspect they will harm me. It's my issue not theirs. It's still not my fault though, this was done to me and I deserve the space to work through it regardless of whether other women feel they understand the need to be seperate from males.

MrsKCastle · 28/07/2017 22:01

Comfort, privacy, security. I don't mind using unisex facilities with individual cubicles in a public area, but I would feel very uncomfortable in a unisex toilet where I might be alone with one or more strange men. I would probably not use a facility like that.

I hope to never need a women's refuge or women's prison, but would certainly not want to be there with men.

Thelilywhite · 28/07/2017 22:04

Safety privacy dignity. Just been in France at a community facility and forced to share bathroom and loo with men right next to my bedroom which was horrible.
Could not relax or sleep and don't get me started on their disgusting toilet habits. ..

inkzooka · 28/07/2017 22:04

I'm very Hmm at rape requires a penis considering I was raped by a woman with no penis and yes, it was classed as RAPE, not sexual assault.

Moussemoose · 28/07/2017 22:05

I appreciate they are important to some people.

The OP asks what they mean to me.

To me they are irrelevant.

Sorry if that is not the response some people wanted.

ethelfleda · 28/07/2017 22:07

They don't really mean much to me as I suppose I've always taken them for granted. Don't think I'd want to get changed in a communal unisex changing room though. Doesn't bother me in a single sex changing room once I came to the conclusion that everyone else feels the same and they want to look at me just as much as I them!! (I.e. not at all!!!)

FerretsAreFeminists · 28/07/2017 22:12

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/1/2009-11-12?timeline=true

It's probably different in other countries but in the UK rape can only be committed by men because it requires a penis.

If you have a problem with that then take it up with the (mostly male) lawmakers.

VestalVirgin · 28/07/2017 22:20

Just been in France at a community facility and forced to share bathroom and loo with men right next to my bedroom which was horrible.

Shock

You know, the only reason why I dare go to unknown places for holiday is because I rely on all countries acknowledging the need for single sex spaces when it comes to showers and loos. Basically, the toilet may only be a hole in the ground, but one can rely on it being women only.

Knowing that many people don't acknowledge the need for privacy any more, I guess I will take my swimsuit on holiday, (not planning to go swimming) just in case the showers are mixed sex. Confused

HatieCockpins · 28/07/2017 22:31

Question for the posters claiming that women also commit rape/assault.

Are you genuinely unaware of the statistics around which group of people commits the majority of violent and sexual crimes?

inkzooka · 28/07/2017 22:38

It's probably different in other countries but in the UK rape can only be committed by men because it requires a penis.

I'm unwilling to give more details (and it wasn't in the papers) but she was guilty of rape and charged.

averylongtimeago · 28/07/2017 22:42

Single sex facilities for me mean safety, privacy and dignity.
I would not want to share intimate space with people of the opposite sex.
I do not want to be in hospital, Ill and vulnerable, having to be examined, use a bed pan, sleep when sharing with unknown males.
I do not want to be in a changing room, in a shop, pool, gym, in an undressed and vulnerable state and have to worry about strange males intruding.
I do not want to go into a public toilet, find a male there and not be able to challenge them, or be using the facilities and realise that I may be at risk from some random male.
Should I need to, I should be able to find safety in a woman's refuge or rape crises centre, without the fear of being confronted with a male.

I know, " not all men" , I am not some bitter man hater. I have been happily married for almost 40 years. However, I and almost every adult woman I know has had some sort of sexual attack/harassment from men. Friends have been raped, others victims of DV, on a lesser level, touched up at work, myself, groped by a "friend" of my DH' s.
Women are tought from childhood to be wary, to be careful, for good reason.
Why should the rights of women for safety, privacy and dignity be so controversial?

Isadora2007 · 28/07/2017 22:44

Cubicles in toilets or changing rooms are perfectly adequate. Urinals are not acceptable in this day and age for men anyway in my opinion- gross and I wouldn't let my son use one so he comes into toilets with me anyway for now.
I'm having a double mastectomy early next year and will be nursder afterwards in a four bed ward which is unisex. There will be curtains to give privacy as and when necessary, so no need for it to be a single sex space. I'd have felt the same in post natal wards- happy for dads to be there and I'd use the curtain for privacy.
I can't see anywhere except woman's refuges where there would be a need for specifically single sex spaces.

inkzooka · 28/07/2017 22:46

It's interesting to read that it apparently doesn't hold up in court in the UK, because it did in my case. I honestly didn't have the capacity to deal with any of the legal proceedings myself so it was mostly other people who did the legal legwork, I just played my part so to speak and was told the conviction. IIRC she got jail time but she's probably out now. I don't know or care!

Derailed a bit there but obviously same sex spaces don't make me feel any safer than GN spaces anymore. Plus, women can be incredibly bitchy about bodies in changing rooms on occasion and I simply don't go swimming at all.

Isadora2007 · 28/07/2017 22:46

As we are mothers here, I'm shocked by the feelings against men in general. We are raising the next generation of men... my big strapping 6 ft 3 son is no risk to anyone so why would him being in the changing cubicle next to you at the pool be an issue?

notoneofyou · 28/07/2017 22:50

I've been thinking a lot about phobias and why it bothers me that there's a new law which could (theoretically) allow someone to access female "safe" spaces.

Some people argue that if someone did and assaulted someone, then they could be prosecuted. But I don't think it's even about fear of being raped or something for me. It's more nebulous than that.

It made me wonder if men-who-want-to-become-women can understand the massive unconscious sort of fear that women are generally programmed with from Day 1 without realising it?

I say that fully expecting some eye rolls and at least some people to say it doesn't affect them - but then I used to think I wasn't afraid and that men didn't affect me in the slightest, that it was pathetic and judgemental for anyone to be like that. And as I've gotten older I've realised that first, even the most confident of women usually have their limits (e.g. man walking steadily behind them on empty street).

Also, most are trained to adapt without even thinking about it, modifying body language and clothing and activities and so on without any conscious effort. I've noticed that women can get really awkward or less open when men are around, and change their behaviour, there's often a performance or judgemental element even if they'd deny it.

And finally, actually men can be pretty scary. I've always found them to be loud, even when just being cheery they can be alarming or jarring with the sheer volume. They're just so much stronger (even my non-muscly DH can pin me without trying), so no wonder they're statistically more physically dangerous than women. When drunk on buses or trains, or bad tempered, they can be physically terrifying. When they're in groups they seem to get especially riled up, though that's testosterone or an ancient hunter-gatherer instinct I don't know.

And yes of course the opposite is true too; women can walk threateningly and talk loudly and bully and hate and assault and do all terrible things too, and on the flip side some men are gentle and kind and loving and decent (and many in my daily life are).

Yet generally I'm more unconsciously relaxed around women in a way I wouldn't have realised if I hadn't really thought about it. I just haven't experienced as much negative stuff from them. I don't know if others are the same. Maybe this is all indicative of me and my childhood more than others.

But I just wonder if a man-born-and-grown-as-man can understand that innate momentary insecurity which comes from seeing a man (even a cleaner) wander through the women's toilets.

Maybe it does just come across as personal attacks to them?

(Oh god I've written another long post haven't I?)

FerretsAreFeminists · 28/07/2017 22:51

I'm shocked by the feelings against men in general.

Yet women are constantly told that we need to take precautions and how we have a personal responsibility to keep ourselves safe. Funny that.

user1492324666 · 28/07/2017 22:52

Boredom

I've no desire to be in a single sex space; better conversation always takes pace in mixed company

AssassinatedBeauty · 28/07/2017 22:54

Isadora why do you feel that it's personal about your son? I have two sons (they're very small at the moment) and I don't take it personally if other women would rather not change next to them when they're adults.

FerretsAreFeminists · 28/07/2017 22:55

Interesting inkzooka. I was under the impression that women couldn't be charged with rape in the UK. The legal definition of rape in this country is penetration with a penis without consent.

Imaginosity · 28/07/2017 22:55

I was on a mixed hospital ward the other day for a day procedure. I felt really unconfortable sitting on a bed in a gown. There was two older men in the beds at each side of me - also in gowns. I felt really exposed and uncomfortanle. I couldn't move as the gown would just drop open at the back. I would have been much more comfortable if it was just women.

bellasuewow · 28/07/2017 22:56

Dignity, privacy, security, freedom, relaxation, safety.