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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask what policy your Uni has on women's spaces?

646 replies

SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 20:31

Those of you who have recent work or study experience.

Would you mind listing institution names and their policies?

NC if you need to of course.

OP posts:
JCo24 · 26/07/2017 23:47

I go to UWE and study on the glenside campus. We have some unisex toilets and some women's toilets and separate changing facilities too.

Original poster
SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 23:49

Thanks JC

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 26/07/2017 23:49

That is the Mumsnet 'feminist' way. As well as not defining our gender, could you refrain from implying our feminism isn't as real as yours? I am fairly sure I've been a feminist longer than you've been alive.

Loopsdefruits · 26/07/2017 23:51

miss for suggesting that trans women are not real women...yes.

assassinated my beliefs are not an excuse to make someone's life harder. I also can't be homophobic or racist. Universities are also students' homes, they should be safe there. If you go back to my post about my university's transgender and non binary policy, it's got a list of things that students can expect from the uni, the SU, and fellow students. Including

"That people’s gender identities are not matters of debate, and that the Union will accept trans and non-binary students without forcing them to justify their existence or their rights"

"That gender identity is defined by the individual, not by society or by societal norms. Trans men are men, trans women are women and non- binary people are non-binary;"

Loopsdefruits · 26/07/2017 23:52

Mrs sorry, that was rude, I am just very tired of being treated like my feminism isn't as valid just because it isn't the same.

MissBax · 26/07/2017 23:52

miss for suggesting that trans women are not real women...yes but... But... THEY AREN'T REAL WOMEN!!! What the hell?!

Original poster
SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 23:53

miss for suggesting that trans women are not real women...yes.

What does that mean? "Real" women?

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 26/07/2017 23:54

Mrs sorry, that was rude Apology accepted. I'm really snappy today as well. Possibly I should take a MN break.

Loopsdefruits · 26/07/2017 23:55

missBax see the second quote

serf well, for me, someone who identifies as one

Loopsdefruits · 26/07/2017 23:56

mrsTerry same :/ I am procrastinating a lot of work that's making me anxious, and also MN is the ONLY place on the whole internet to get decent, unbiased, accurate coverage of the charlie gard case. I'm in Italy atm and it's all been very sensationalised in the media.

MissBax · 26/07/2017 23:57

serf well, for me, someone who identifies as one - so would you say Rachel Dolezal is a "real" Afro-American because she identifies as one?

Original poster
SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 23:58

Surely once you accept that everyone has a right to live as they wish and that "transwoman" is a perfectly valid and acceptable thing to be, the rather hazy business of "real" isn't important?

Every transwoman who I've ever heard express an opinion hasn't had any patience for or interest in laying claim to "real".

OP posts:
hasitcometothis33 · 26/07/2017 23:58

Mrsterry

From 'yelling' to 'quietly implying' to 'I mean you sounded like'. I wonder how much further you can backpedal

This thread is part of serfterf's interest in/campaigning around trans issues, and was patently a prompt/dog whistle for a discussion/argument about trans issues. I'm not wrong am I?

I asked Serf at the beginning of the thread of this was about trans, she wouldn't say it was. Now we've had six or so pages of posters arguing about trans

Dunno why she wasn't just honest about it from the start really

bambambini · 26/07/2017 23:59

You'd be accused of transphobia for using *the term women, which you find "super gross"?!

Can we stop the world please, I want to get off now!!!*

This - it's actually quite chilling.

Original poster
SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 23:59

Then, once you've established that, there's no problem socially and only medical services, private spaces, bodily differences etc are contested or requiring negotiation?

OP posts:
FormerlyFrikadela01 · 27/07/2017 00:00

"That gender identity is defined by the individual, not by society or by societal norms. Trans men are men, trans women are women and non- binary people are non-binary;"

Unless that identity is just woman then by your own admission it makes you feel "gross" and would be liable for disciplinary.

Here I'll correct it for you:
"Gender identity is determined by the individual and not society unless you come to this university and identify as a women then we get to decide then you"

AssassinatedBeauty · 27/07/2017 00:01

No problem with any of that, until this part: "Trans men are men, trans women are women and non- binary people are non-binary"

So everyone at your university is forced to accept the belief that gender is innate and takes priority over sex, and no one can discuss anything gender critical at all otherwise they will be disciplined and presumably eventually removed from the university. Gender cannot be challenged at all.

How is human biology taught, without crossing this boundary?

Original poster
SerfTerf · 27/07/2017 00:02

I don't know which bit of the OP you found obscure or opaque has. The question and the subject matter was quite clear.

We could all wander MN asking "is this thread about ?"

But what would be the purpose? Other than to goad?

OP posts:
fannydaggerz · 27/07/2017 00:03

Glasgow Caledonian university

www.gcu.ac.uk/media/gcalwebv2/student/wellbeing/Trans%20Student%20Policy%20FINAL%20APPROVAL%20FOR%20WEB.pdf

Same policy as Edinburgh in regards to loo's and changing rooms.

Original poster
SerfTerf · 27/07/2017 00:03

Thanks fanny.

OP posts:
UnconventionalWarfare · 27/07/2017 00:03

Aint social justice wonderful 😂

Loopsdefruits · 27/07/2017 00:04

missBax no, because you can't be african american if both your biological parents are white.

See, we will always differ because I do believe in a genetic cause of being trans or non binary. Just like I believe (despite any current evidence) in a genetic cause of sexuality. I don't think it's 'just' genetics, because I think we'd have figured that out, and it would mean 2 trans or 2 LGB+ incidences in identical twins, but I do think gender identity is real.

You can however be african american if one or both of your parents are african american but you LOOK white (for whatever reason). Which is more how I view being trans.

Of course, if we disagree that's fine, like I said there's no evidence at this point in 2017. In future one of us may be proved right one way or the other. Currently, we just believe what we believe. I choose to believe the identities of trans and nb people, and so do my university.

Note, I didn't 'choose' UEA because of their policies, it's just cool that they're so accepting, and that most of the people that work and study there also are.

inkzooka · 27/07/2017 00:06

That is the Mumsnet 'feminist' way.

There really is 0 point commenting another opinion Grin

MissBax · 27/07/2017 00:06

But don't you see that transwomen are just men post plastic surgery?! Do you think there's such thing as male and female brains? If so, please do shed some light on this

fannydaggerz · 27/07/2017 00:06

Glasgow university policy.

They have provided gender neutral facilities and this document shows where they are. They have a large policy document on equality which is available from their website.

http://www.gla.ac.uk/media/media3018833_en.pdf

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