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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Man in ladies toilets

662 replies

ItsAHardKn0ckLife · 26/07/2017 10:23

Okay I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable here, husband works away, have an unwell toddler and I'm a little sleep deprived. So not sure if emotions are getting the better of me.

Popped into our local M&S, DS (2yo) in tow. Needed to use the toilet before shopping. Walk into the ladies (small bathroom, only 2 cubicles) to an older man and woman (late 60's at a guess) changing a babies nappy. I stopped in my tracks, confused, checked I'd definitely walked into the right toilets.
I said "you are aware this is the ladies?"
"Yes" the woman replied, "have you got a problem?"
"Erm, well yes actually I have"
Cue lots of tutting and huffing and puffing whilst I waited patiently for him to leave.
On their way out of the door I was told I was being "absolutely ridiculous" and "totally unreasonable".
In hindsight I probably should have ignored, but I was feeling pretty pissed off so I went to inform a member of staff.
The couple were standing near me and they were shouting that I'm a hypocrite as I took my DS in there with me. Again repeating that I was unreasonable etc and what did I expect them to do? They then walked off.

I ended up crying Blush

The staff were lovely and offered me a very nice cup of tea. I apologised for being an emotional wreck and causing drama.

So was I wrong for being unhappy about this? Would you have said something or just turned a blind eye to him being in there?

OP posts:
Hapaxlegomenon · 26/07/2017 14:14

Genuine question - when I was pregnant I once went in the men's because the women's had been locked for ages and I thought I was going to wet myself. If the rules need to be so black and white, was I BU? What would other posters have done?

JacquesHammer · 26/07/2017 14:14

But they were not even vaguely appologetic (going by the OPs post) and were yelling at her....so they don't sound very nice. Nice people do not wait outside to have another go at you

I thought - from the OP that they only shouted once the OP had gone and informed a member of staff. Suppose at that point they could have equally felt stressed and rather flustered.

Either way I kind of think on both sides its the very definition of a storm in a teacup

Sparklingbrook · 26/07/2017 14:14

I am wondering if it's one of those situations when you had to be there TBH. I would like to hear the other side.

Kailoer · 26/07/2017 14:17

i think most public places use the age of 7 as a cut off (i've seen it on signs at the gym, at our family swimming pool locally), I thought that one was fairly universal but not law?

Can anyone comment authoritatively on how this situation would affect a Muslim girl/woman - would it be acceptable or would she have to leave?

(Taht's the most obvious question, but i guess it's also relevant e.g. if you're a Mea Shearim Jew where bathing or walking on pavements with the other gender isn't acceptable, but it's a bit more niche)

Zephyr01 · 26/07/2017 14:18

They were the aggressors and shouted so it was verbal assault.

What's verbal assault? Is that another bit of law plucked from thin air?

VladmirsPoutine · 26/07/2017 14:19

I think you were quite a busybody. You could have just used the cubicle and gone on your way. Your performance of waiting for them to leave so that you could go into a cubicle is rather odd. Not surprised they yelled at you. You made a drama out of nothing then became tearful when called out on it.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/07/2017 14:20

jaques

They stayed to yell at her

They were near her...in a marks and spencer

Sounds to me like they waited to see what she was going to do

They did not yell at her in the toilet, i dont care where they yelled, they shouldnt have been yelling at all

They sound rude and unpleasant, anyone who yells at someone for some real or perceived slight is not being very nice

Figgygal · 26/07/2017 14:23

He shouldn't have been in there but think you did go overboard I'm afraid by running off to the staff and then crying

Why make such a scene?

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 26/07/2017 14:24

She could've changed the nappy on her own but if she was so inept she should have let the man go into the male changing facilities of which you say there were some

so inept wow.

So when I struggled at times because of my illness, I was just being inept. Who knew Hmm

Gileswithachainsaw · 26/07/2017 14:24

Why are more people bothered about making a scene than anything else?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/07/2017 14:24

If i was stressed and flustered i would have made a break for it Smile

Not made an exhibition of myself...in marks of all places

Still could've been worse...couldve been john lewis Shock

Morphene · 26/07/2017 14:27

hapaxel well I think we have ruled out the idea that you did something illegal at least!

I really think people who have problems with being in a locked stall while somebody of the opposite sex is outside the stall need to accept this is their problem and not make it everyone else's.

So I don't think you were unreasonable. I don't think the man in this story was unreasonable either (until he started returning fire, which was unreasonable).

paddypants13 · 26/07/2017 14:27

Ywnbu op. He shouldn't have been in a women only space regardless of the circs and it doesn't take two people to change a baby's nappy.

When I take 4 year old dd to the toilet mire often than not we either can't fit in the cubicle together or I have ds (2) to watch as well so I stand in the open cubicle doorway. I don't want strange men in the toilets at the same time. (And before you say it, I know not all men are sex offenders and women can be child abusers as well, but let's face it, the majority are men.)

Why is it always women who have to accommodate everyone. She should have gone in the men's.

demirose87 · 26/07/2017 14:28

OP is entitled to feel the way she is. She was a female in what was meant to be a female only space. Some people may feel strongly about this for their own reasons and might also have been upset. Until that toilet is labelled as unisex he had no right to be in there.

PrettyBelle · 26/07/2017 14:30

I really wish people would stop referring to "lack of danger" when advocating the presence of men in female toilets.

I am not scared of men but there are things which I am not comfortable doing in front of men! Such as checking if the tights on my bum under the skirt may have ripped, or adjusting a bra strap, or doing a back-comb in the hair (it looks a bit funny so I prefer to do it without eye-witnesses), etc., etc. I don't have to justify why I don't men around for that - that's why I went to the LADIES loo to get it done rather than in front of the mirror in M&S.

Seriously, just give women some privacy for God's sake!

User843022 · 26/07/2017 14:30

'What's verbal assault? Is that another bit of law plucked from thin air?'

Apparently so. People react to someone having a go at them and its 'verbal assault'. Only on mn Grin

Morphene · 26/07/2017 14:31

giles because that is the question in the op. she asked if she was unreasonable, and if others would have turned a blind eye to him being there.

Many of us might have felt surprised or uncomfortable, but we would not have acted on those feelings, having judged them unfair in the case of a man helping a woman use the baby change facilities. So in having those feelings the op wasn't unreasonable. On creating a scene...she may have been....opinion is divided.

Sparklingbrook · 26/07/2017 14:33

I wonder if the Daily Mail are sharpening their pencils yet? Maybe the elderly couple will then come forward to put their side across?

User843022 · 26/07/2017 14:33

'I am not scared of men but there are things which I am not comfortable doing in front of men'

Yes same here. However I'd have turned a blind eye to these grandparents changing a nappy..

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/07/2017 14:33

When did it start being the woman's problem if she is uncomfortable with a man being there and a mans problem if he is uncomfortable with a woman being there?

Cos this hasnt been the case for ever

I am 47 and I certainly wasnt taught that it was A ok to go in the gents and if a man has a problem its tough tits

And i know my parents weren't taught this either

Fairly sure its not on the curriculum (Grin joke)

So when did parents start teaching their children this...i feel my children may be missing out

And no i am not including the anomalies we all know about and generally wouldnt mind

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/07/2017 14:33

sparking

Daily mail sad face

Dervel · 26/07/2017 14:34

General solution for baby changing as a male:

  1. If you have one use a car and keep it nearby. I got pretty good at close quarters rapid response nappy changes.
  2. If unavoidable approach staff, enquire about what facilities are available and if no unisex/gents facilities then insist staff member stands by to explain and reassure anyone who comes by.
  3. If staff refuse whip out changing mat and crack on on the shop floor if your feeling contentious.

I'm a single Dad and I've successfully navigated baby/toddlerhood without recourse to options 2 or 3. Plenty of stores offer unisex or facilities in the gents, so if there aren't a set in one store there almost certainly will be another that does.

I think a lot of guff is talked about things being so inconvenient for Dads, but honestly with my hand on heart I've not found it to be particularly challenging. A little preparation and common sense goes a long way!

I am aware where I can go in almost all my local shopping haunts, anywhere further afield I tend to take my dc is invariably child focused and a bit more forward thinking.

PrettyBelle · 26/07/2017 14:34

FWIW, I once saw a couple in their 30s changing a baby together in the ladies' loo. There was very evidently no need for the man to be there and I didn't think twice to tell him that he shouldn't be there. He had enough common sense not to start objecting or make a self-righteous scene.

Morphene · 26/07/2017 14:34

pretty but why are you so much more happy to do that in front of other strange women, than men? Have you been trained by society to be massively sexist in this regard?

I am a woman and I don't want other people seeing me pulling my pants out my arse, or doing my hair. I don't need to check their junk before deciding who to feel uncomfortable in front of.

I get the argument for women wanting privacy, I just don't understand why this doesn't imply privacy from other women too.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/07/2017 14:35

myrtle

I think its less assault and more harassment Smile