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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Man in ladies toilets

662 replies

ItsAHardKn0ckLife · 26/07/2017 10:23

Okay I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable here, husband works away, have an unwell toddler and I'm a little sleep deprived. So not sure if emotions are getting the better of me.

Popped into our local M&S, DS (2yo) in tow. Needed to use the toilet before shopping. Walk into the ladies (small bathroom, only 2 cubicles) to an older man and woman (late 60's at a guess) changing a babies nappy. I stopped in my tracks, confused, checked I'd definitely walked into the right toilets.
I said "you are aware this is the ladies?"
"Yes" the woman replied, "have you got a problem?"
"Erm, well yes actually I have"
Cue lots of tutting and huffing and puffing whilst I waited patiently for him to leave.
On their way out of the door I was told I was being "absolutely ridiculous" and "totally unreasonable".
In hindsight I probably should have ignored, but I was feeling pretty pissed off so I went to inform a member of staff.
The couple were standing near me and they were shouting that I'm a hypocrite as I took my DS in there with me. Again repeating that I was unreasonable etc and what did I expect them to do? They then walked off.

I ended up crying Blush

The staff were lovely and offered me a very nice cup of tea. I apologised for being an emotional wreck and causing drama.

So was I wrong for being unhappy about this? Would you have said something or just turned a blind eye to him being in there?

OP posts:
zzzzz · 26/07/2017 13:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JacquesHammer · 26/07/2017 13:49

YANBU. I don't want a man in my toilet. She could've changed the nappy on her own but if she was so inept she should have let the man go into the male changing facilities of which you say there were some

Without playing whataboutery its possible that together they could change a nappy, but alone neither could.

Of course they may just be arseholes. But I generally like to think the best of people, and that they've made what they felt was the best decision rather than making it for any spurious reasons of entitlement or deliberate offence.

GahBuggerit · 26/07/2017 13:53

"I always assumed when they talked about changing 'laws' for trans reasons, they meant upholding the existing equality legislation..."

No Morphene, they mean that anyone identifying as a member of the opposite sex will be able to access services/areas provided for said sex.

So women only gym sessions, clubs, sport teams etc will be totally open to biological males as long as they identify as a woman.

TieGrr · 26/07/2017 13:53

Then the male who was in the female toilets yelled AT the female throughly the door.

We actually don't know whether the man said anything to the OP at all or if it was just the wife. And nowhere does the original post mention anything about yelling through a door.

NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 26/07/2017 13:54

I wouldn't have been majorly happy either to be honest, but I don't know what the answer is other than a designated baby change room.

What if a woman came out of a cubicle in just her bra? That's happened to a few friends of mine who have changed from work clothes to casual clothes or changed into dry clothes when wet.

Gileswithachainsaw · 26/07/2017 13:54

Then they could have used the men's!!!

Isn't it more an issue that when choosing between two lots of people to upset it was deemed nore acceptable to upset the women more than the men Even though there's a good chance that the very reason they didn't choose the men's was because the wife was uncomfortable with the idea of being in a men's loo. So she's uncomfortable yet choosing to make another person uncomfortable for the same reason (male presence) whilst making out the op was U.

SkintAsASkintThing · 26/07/2017 13:54

Unless he was loitering or being abusive in some way I really couldnt bring myself to.get worked up about a bloke in the.ladies loo. Just wouldnt bother me, hell, women have been bragging about darting into the mens for.as long as I can remember !!!

HoneyDragon · 26/07/2017 13:55

Our municipal changing rooms have signs saying no males over 8 in the female area and no females over 8 in the males and request you speak to a staff memeber if you require a special arrangement. So I guess these things are considered carefully.

HoneyDragon · 26/07/2017 13:56

The op states the couple shouted at her.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/07/2017 13:59

I was googling but i found this interesting

Women were curious about the concept, but not curious enough to relieve themselves in public just yet. They still felt vulnerable in these stalls. Naked, indecent, unsafe. Anyone who saw you entering the room would be free to imagine in great detail what you were doing in there, which was humiliating in an era where women were told that it was better to soil their skirts in mud than lift them and allow strangers to gawk at their shins. Women's bathrooms were not popular because society wasn't ready to accept them.

So victorian era and it was only really when 'shopping' as a thing to do started that more public restrooms were created

The article said that it took a generation before going to the toilet outside of your own home became 'normal'

busyboysmum · 26/07/2017 13:59

There is no UK legislation that enshrines in law that men must use the male toilets and women the Ladies Toilets. However on private premises the manager or licensee has the right to determine entry to the premises and the right to decide who uses which toilet and any other gendered facilities such as changing rooms etc

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/07/2017 14:00

Yes they were standing near her when they were yelling

After they had yelled through the door as they were leaving

Personally I prefer it when people stand near me to yell at me...so much les threatening and embarrassing

TieGrr · 26/07/2017 14:00

The op states the couple shouted at her.

The shouting was only mentioned once she approached staff about them after they'd left the toilet. There was definitely no mention of the man yelling at the OP through the toilet door.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/07/2017 14:02

I generally like to think the best of people, and that they've made what they felt was the best decision rather than making it for any spurious reasons of entitlement or deliberate offence.

So do i

But they were not even vaguely appologetic (going by the OPs post) and were yelling at her....so they don't sound very nice. Nice people do not wait outside to have another go at you

Nice people go home and bitch about you with all their friends

Jenna43 · 26/07/2017 14:02

I think YABU. Running telling tales to staff members was uncalled for, you had already told them what you thought in the toilets. I'm not surprised they were annoyed at you.

User843022 · 26/07/2017 14:03

'Myrtle.... where does bickering come into it?'
You dramatically claimed the op has been 'verbally assaulted' . I am suggesting, a bit like the op that's an overreaction and a few words even in raised voices is hardly 'assault' Confused

He shouldn't have been in there, but really to assist his wife with a baby? So what really.

Lauraagh · 26/07/2017 14:04

Last weekend I was at a concert and the que for ladies was ridiculous.
The women started going in the men's toilet and laughing and joking about it...
Double standards

Ceebs85 · 26/07/2017 14:04

It would strike me as weird but I wouldn't make a comment or create a scene about it as I'd be going into a cubicle anyway. Sounds harmless.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/07/2017 14:05

My apologies they didnt yell as they left

They were just being rude and calling her ridiculous

newyorkgirl · 26/07/2017 14:07

I think..you have massively over reacted. I mean he was clearly helping changing the nappy, sounds to me like grandparents looking after their grand baby, I'm sorry but grandma may of needed a little help, might not be confident doing it on her own...wriggly baby etc etc. If men were always in the ladies toilets fair enough but they are not sounds to be like you've projected your own emotions and life stress on a poor old couple looking after their grandbaby and caused a scene over something trivial. I'd be embarrassed to be quite honest. People have really problems in the world and here's people run round after you making cups of tea because shock a man was in the toilet when you walked in. Bit ridiculous. YABU. If you were that uncomfortable you could of just waited instead of creating a drama.

newyorkgirl · 26/07/2017 14:11

Sorry I see you did wait...

Gileswithachainsaw · 26/07/2017 14:11

I would say male entitlement is a real big problem and is something people experience all over the world.

And worrying about causing a scene?

Yes silly little girl Hmm

HoneyDragon · 26/07/2017 14:12

They were the aggressors and shouted so it was verbal assault.

Fuck it though if we're bringing random shit in to validate points then I've changed my mind. The op is unreasonable because at no point has she mentioned she gave any oats to Peter the horse. So on that basis she is a terrible human.

demirose87 · 26/07/2017 14:13

No I've not pulled it out the air. When I worked in a shopping centre, it was 7 as a general rule, but obviously discretion is advised. I've seen a sign on a park toilet door saying the same thing. That's why I said I thought it was 7, not that I'm 100% sure. There's probably no law setting it in stone.

Morphene · 26/07/2017 14:14

busyboy see I thought it would be something like that. So it isn't illegal at all for a man to walk into the women's toilet or vice versa.

Just as it isn't illegal to take pictures in the local swimming pool. They can ask you to leave if you do (their building their rules), but it isn't illegal.

So when the trans related law change happens it will be to prevent shops from declaring female only spaces.