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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
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BabychamSocialist · 23/07/2017 12:39

They're not stood in school toilets. The toilets are open plan (ie missing a wall) and open onto a corridor. The teacher sits on a bench in the corridor and eats their lunch and monitors if anything is going on.

We have teachers who patrol the playground and fields too - it's always been like this!

SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 12:40

Toilets by law have to be enclosed. They can't be open plan.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 12:40

Babycham
Virtue signal all you like; you are not a feminist if you advocate putting women and girls in danger

And what happens when males start volunteering to help in rape crisis centres? All they will gave to do is say they are a woman. They won't even need to wear a dress. Like Danielle Muscato

OP posts:
BabychamSocialist · 23/07/2017 12:41

The room the toilets themselves are in is open plan. The toilets are all in cubicles.

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 12:41

The toilet cubicle is straight onto a corridor?

I call bullshit.

SmileEachDay · 23/07/2017 12:41

The room is open plan Sylvia - the cubicle has floor to ceiling doors. That's what they're like in my school, anyway.

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 12:41

I won't protest something that we don't even know what the government will propose. You could just have normal toilets plus a gender neutral or unisex one as well. Is that a problem?
Has anyone with actual authority said female toilets will be taken away? No. Someone on mumsnet has and people and jumping on the bandwagon and riding with it.
You have no idea what will be proposed!!

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 12:42

Who will 'monitor' public gender neutral facilities in your 'solution' then Babycham

OP posts:
SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 12:42

That is what I mean. The room toilet cubicles are in cannot be open plan on to another room. It must be enclosed.

BabychamSocialist · 23/07/2017 12:42

They are similar to this design:

Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side
SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 12:44

Do you mean that you have a series of totally separate rooms with doors on them, which are not in fact cubicles, but rooms?

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 12:44

Why does a gender neutral bathroom need monitored? Surely the people using them are happy to use them.

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 12:44

whiskey if a man who says he is a woman as a legal right to use womens bathrooms, then womens batbrooms have gone.

zinniazuri · 23/07/2017 12:44

Babycham

If gender is a social construct, how can it be a biological fact, like sex? It can't. They identify with the social construct of what females should be, but that doesn't make them one. If it's a social construct then they can't have been 'born in the wrong body', as that implies an innate cause - e.g. 'pink brain, blue brain'. So, which is it?

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/07/2017 12:44

If you go to a venue like the NEC, Birmingham, the toilets are cubicles opening on to the main foyer. It's not bullshit. I imagine it is the design used in new schools too.

SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 12:45

Those are not cubicles! They're self enclosed rooms. Lots of places have these.

BabychamSocialist · 23/07/2017 12:45

SylviaPoe Are you determined to be a pain in the backside? We call them cubicles at our school. Maybe they count as rooms but I don't see why it matters.

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 12:46

Also one teachers dedicated lunch break is sat eating there?

Thats not right. There should be 2 doors between a toilet and somewhere people eat.

Teachers are happy to eat their lunch in a place like that?

DJBaggySmalls · 23/07/2017 12:46

The Govt know its bullshit because primogeniture is still in place and women cannot inherit a peerage.

IdentifiesAsASquirrel · 23/07/2017 12:47

I would imagine they need monitoring to prevent boys assaulting girls, prevent teenage sex and smoking going on. What a sad state of affairs where boys and girls need to be watched in the loos

Smellbellina · 23/07/2017 12:47

What can we actually do?
I find this a scary prospect, I don't want to sit by and just wait for it to happen. I will write to my MP although I know he will be against it anyway (for different reasons to me though) but what else can we do?!

SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 12:47

It matters under the law, which is what is being discussed on this thread.

There are totally different regulations, based on cubicles and rooms.

Otherwise dodgy building owners and landlords would be putting cubicles into buildings causing both privacy and hygiene issues.

SmileEachDay · 23/07/2017 12:47

I think the splitting hairs about school toilet roomicles is distracting from the actual debate.

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 12:48

Sparticus ok but that's not what has been proposed has it? Has anything? No.

SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 12:49

'Also one teachers dedicated lunch break is sat eating there?

Thats not right. There should be 2 doors between a toilet and somewhere people eat.

Teachers are happy to eat their lunch in a place like that?'

Yep. Also the law in homes, cafes, restaurants etc.