Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
ThymeLordRegenerates2Spartacus · 23/07/2017 18:56

I've signed the petition and shared it on social media. I've not been brave enough to declare myself TERF on fb until now. Enough is enough.

wherearemymarbles · 23/07/2017 18:57

Utter. Fucking. Madness. Makes my blood boil and curdle in equal measure.
Not even auldos huxley, orwell or Margret Atwood could come up such an insane pirece of political insanity.

Yet again the rights of 10's of millions get fucked on the alter of political correctness for the benefit of a few. If I wasn't a trAnsphobe (or whatever the term is) before I fucking well am now Angry

eatingonlyapples · 23/07/2017 18:58

This is great and I'm glad it's happening and it will change the lives of many of my trans friends :)

Not sure why you're all foaming at the mouths, it's not going to affect you.

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 18:58

clarity do you honestly believe if yiu wake up tomorrow and gender has disappeared men will stop raping?

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 18:59

Not sure why you're all foaming at the mouths, it's not going to affect you..

Yeah ok. Didnt drop that to start a bunfight at all, did you.Confused

Sallystyle · 23/07/2017 19:00

Yes u2 me too. I've had to come away from it for a while because it seemed so crazy and I was getting upset.

I started a long FB rant and deleted it because people either see the problem already or they think you are a closed minded bigot.

I want to shake people. Get them to see how it will hurt them and their daughters. I never, ever want my girls to feel unsafe in a changing room. I never want them to feel like they have no safe spaces to call their own.

Feminism.. what was it all for if the strides we made can be eroded like this so easily? Women once again not important. Men want to pretend to be them, they want our spaces and they can have them. Groomers, rapists, arseholes will take advantage of this and it's women who suffer again.

It breaks my fucking heart.

It's not difficult. You are either male or female. You can think you are something else but you aren't. How fucking dare they.

ThymeLordRegenerates2Spartacus · 23/07/2017 19:01

Not sure why you're all foaming at the mouths, it's not going to affect you

FFS, maybe go and read all 24 pages where it is CLEARLY explained exactly how this is going to affect all women and girls.

claritytobeclear · 23/07/2017 19:02

Spartacus, if gender were abolished men would not rape, if their predisposition to rape was actually rooted in gender perceptions, rather than their biology. Are you saying men rape because of their biology?

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 19:03

Not sure why you're all foaming at the mouths, it's not going to affect you

Sigh. The feeling of vindication is going to be bitterly enjoyable for ten minutes amongst all the rape and carnage, I suppose.

34AQuid · 23/07/2017 19:05

Its complete fuckery. What are people going to do about it, though?
My MP is a misogynistic Tory twat who loves the whole trans rights agenda (while voting against gay marriage despite being a homosexual man and persistently banging on about the UK's lax abortion rights Hmm). I have learned the hard way with this charmer that writing to him about anything is like pissing in the wind Sad. But I am so fucking outraged and to be honest terrified by these proposals.

TinyRick · 23/07/2017 19:05

It's this whole blurred lines when it comes to gender and sex.

Even MN asks for your 'gender' when clicking either male or female.

It's become a synonym.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 23/07/2017 19:06

Has anyone lost a sock?

sticklebrix · 23/07/2017 19:07

'Not sure why you're all foaming at the mouths, it's not going to affect you..'
eatingonlyapples
In what way is this not going to affect me (female, two dds)?

VestalVirgin · 23/07/2017 19:07

Vestal , so, with gender abolished, short of a medical /birth /identifying certificate, or examination, how can you legitimately check people are the sex they say they are, on a day to day basis?

By looking at them. In most people, it is obvious. In some cases it only becomes obvious when they speak. In very, very few cases you cannot recognize someone's sex from looks or voice. In which case you have to ask for the passport, where the actual sex, not some gender identity nonsense, should be listed.

I don't understand what benefit you think gender has in that respect. Gender identities make people more likely to lie about their sex, not less.

I want to abolish gender and acknowledge the reality that there are two sexes.

Gender is a social construct. I want that social construct to be abolished, and gender identity to be disregarded. What someone's personality is, is completely unimportant.

Gender can stay in language, because it would be very hard to change some languages so that there isn't grammatical gender anymore.

But in society? We don't need it. Men need it to oppress women. Women have no need for it.

SmileEachDay · 23/07/2017 19:07

HANG ON! STOP!

It's not going to affect us. Phew. We can stop foaming at the mouth.

Look ^ poster up there said so.

Phew.

Well, that IS a relief, eh?

34AQuid · 23/07/2017 19:07

that should have said lax abortion laws - he wants the time limit changed etc etc blah blah

Brazenhussy0 · 23/07/2017 19:08

Not sure why you're all foaming at the mouths, it's not going to affect you

Why is it that people supporting this lunacy never bother to RTFT? Why the utter refusal to read, listen and educate themselves? It's all heads in the sand and fingers in the ears.

If you're not sure why we're all 'foaming at the mouths' then read the past 24 pages and find out why.

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/07/2017 19:08

eatingonlyapples would you like to expand on how it won't affect women and girls, based on the concerns raised on this thread?

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 23/07/2017 19:09

I think the use of gender started out because of a squeamishness about using the word sex, but now it's become the norm and people don't realise it is not accurate.

Datun · 23/07/2017 19:09

claritytobeclear

I totally understand why you are questioning the reason why men more violent.

Unfortunately it's now become a little moot. The FWR boards have analysed this endlessly.

But now it no longer matters. They are, we're stuck with it for now. We have to deal with the current system.

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 19:11

@Brazenhussy0 not only do they not RTFT, they don't THINK

claritytobeclear · 23/07/2017 19:12

Vestal, my opinions are not fully formulated. I don't think gender has a benefit, as such. I am just using it to describe socially constructed perceptions of male and female characteristics, beyond the biological ones. I'm not sure you can easily tell males and females apart, just by looking at them or hearing them speak. Regarding passports, we are not required to have one - so that could be difficult.

venusinscorpio · 23/07/2017 19:12

Majora and Babychamsocialist. I am absolutely going to identify as bisexual LGBT to complete the survey and absolutely going to identify as agender or non binary as soon as this stupid law is passed. Get used to it. That's what self ID is. Or haven't you grasped that?

venusinscorpio · 23/07/2017 19:14

The double standards are astounding.

VestalVirgin · 23/07/2017 19:15

Surely if we made unisex places, with good provision for personal privacy, more safe, it would be simpler? Or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing reality.
Reality is that refugee males molest and rape refugee women in the hundreds because there are no separated washrooms and toilets.
Why are there no separate facilities? Because there is not enough money.

Everything would cost a fuckton more money with those allegedly so easy unisex facilities.
I like to go camping at a specific campsite. There's a large room with two dozens of showers, all visible from everywhere in the room. That's the women's showers. It costs little money to have it set up like that. Now consider how much more money it would cost to have a private room for each shower, about fifty rooms in total, and how much more I, someone earning below minimum wage, would have to pay for that. I could not afford it anymore.

I am thinking, if gender is abolished, privacy matters much less.

No, privacy would just be a given. Because of actual sex.

Perhaps, over the time, men would start to behave better if their oppression of women was abolished and not encourage, and then perhaps women would not feel a need to have privacy from males.

But that'd happen about two hundred years after abolishing gender. In the meantime, we would have sex segregation because everyone would see that it is needed.

Swipe left for the next trending thread