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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 23/07/2017 16:01

I find it incredibly sinister that we re normalising having men everywhere, even where children are naked.

Male violence is a huge issue and not one we can identify out of. What about children who feel uncomfortable with the giant naked bloke next to them? We have to lie to them and say that they are female?

We are being forced to lie, so fucking Orwellian.

chips4teaplease · 23/07/2017 16:01

Women do not have penises. Men do not have vaginas. There need to be places for transwomen and for transmen but women-only and indeed men-only spaces aren't them
This. So much so.
This new trans movement is all about males getting to invade women's spaces, and women getting to identify as exceptional and better than us lowly "cis" women by declaring themselves nonbinary or transmen
And this.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 23/07/2017 16:04

I think it would be helpful if we stopped using the concept of alpha, beta, etc. It just conforms to the idea of some men being dominant or superior others. We should be teaching children that it is okay to just be themselves, to like what they want, wear what they want, pursue the profession they want. And that they don't have to fit into some kind of pecking order of manliness.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 23/07/2017 16:05

Lots of kids who go down the transgender route have other issues that have led to suicidal thoughts, e.g. it's disproportionately common amongst children on the autistic spectrum or who've experienced some kind of abuse. It's early days since the huge increase in teenagers transitioning, but as far as I understand it early signs are that transition doesn't help much at all. The mental health issues remain and resurface after the initial euphoria wears off.

MadreTranquillitatis · 23/07/2017 16:08

I've decided to identify as a transwoman for that goverment survey.
Although I was born female I feel like I'm a transwoman. Surely that makes perfect sense?

GahBuggerit · 23/07/2017 16:09

I've filled in the survey as a trans woman as I am a biological woman, identifying as a man (today) who identifies as a woman. so I'm fine to fill it out :)

OlennasWimple · 23/07/2017 16:11

Just to say that the survey includes a 500 word opportunity right at the end to include "other information" - there's the chance to point policy makers towards Danielle Moscato and ensure that they are familiar with the term "cotton ceiling", for example...

Majora · 23/07/2017 16:20

This really isn't about getting "men" (trans women are women) to "invade" women's spaces.

It's kind of awful that you're filling out a survey designed to judge the violence LGBT people have faced as though you've faced the same violence simply by presenting as yourself, the gender you are. Nobody in here seems even willing to understand what trans people go through and have been through.

MineKraftCheese · 23/07/2017 16:21

@Majora trans women don't seem to give a shot about listening to women

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 16:23

majora goe many consultations are there to judge the violence women face, for being women.

The point is that anyone can fill that in. Because all about self iding. I fit the criteria for being a transman.

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/07/2017 16:26

Majora why are you assuming that people filling out the survey aren't lesbian, bi or non-binary? How do you know how they identify? It's up to each individual to decide, surely?

VestalVirgin · 23/07/2017 16:27

This really isn't about getting "men" (trans women are women) to "invade" women's spaces.

Except it totally is.

Name ONE benefit this has to anyone except males who want to molest women.

It is not about safety. Everyone is less safe with males having access everywhere.

It is not even about validation of gender identities (which should never be prioritized about women's safety anyway) - how validated will a transwoman who wears dresses and make up feel if "she" gets to share a toilet with bearded blokes who feel like using the women's toilet that day?

Anything surgically altered transwomen gained in validation from being allowed to legally change gender after surgery will fly out of the window with self-identification.

The only ones who profit are males who want to invade women's spaces.

Majora · 23/07/2017 16:30

If you were born as a woman and identify as a woman, you're a woman. Not a trans man.

All the trans women I know and all the LGBT societies and groups I've been in give a MASSIVE shit about listening to cis women's experiences. You can acknowledge that all these groups experience huge, frightening amounts of violence, especially from cisgender men, without shooting down one or the other because you don't believe them when I have personally seen this violence simply because my friend was existing as herself in a club. She used the male restroom out of fear of being chased out of the ladies' and was harassed and sexually abused. This wasn't an isolated incident. She always got targeted more than I did for sexual come-ons and people treating her like shit, and this is in a relatively progressive university town.

There's no need for this behaviour of lying on fucking surveys and trying to ruin things for trans people. Protest as much as you want, but please stop skewing results.

MadreTranquillitatis · 23/07/2017 16:30

@Majora What other choice do we have? How can we protect ourselves, our daughters?

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/07/2017 16:32

I'm not cis. I don't identify as any gender and I never have. I'm bisexual. Am I allowed to fill out the survey?

MadreTranquillitatis · 23/07/2017 16:32

@Majora And what's the difference between me saying I identify as a man who identifies as a woman and Danielle Whatshisface saying he identifies as a woman?

VestalVirgin · 23/07/2017 16:33

Protest as much as you want, but please stop skewing results.

Oh, now you protest, but what about males skewing the statistics about female crime by identifying as female, and being recorded as female criminals? Hmm

At best, you are naive, but I suspect you are actually a raging misogynist.

TinyRick · 23/07/2017 16:33

I do love how when such 'beautiful and stunning and brave' transwomen like Danielle Muscato and Stefonknee Wolsht are mentioned the genderists are nowhere to be see again.

And let's not forget the most famous 'beautiful and stunning and brave' MtT...Bruce 'Call me Caitlyn' Jenner who has publicly stated he wore he daughter's 'panties' and has been out and about wearing the same exact outfit as his daughter.

Fetish, much?

cuirderussie · 23/07/2017 16:34

Majora if all the violence is coming from men, why do TRAs target women so aggressively with online harassment, attempts to get them fired, rape and death threats?

www.terfisaslur.com

GahBuggerit · 23/07/2017 16:35

But Majora, that's how we feelz innit, and that's all that matters. So actually, were hunky dory to fill the survey out.

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 16:36

If you were born as a woman and identify as a woman, you're a woman. Not a trans man.

What defines identify? I wear trousers. Have very short hair etc. I don't identify as a gender. I am me.

What is the qualifyer for identifying? What exactly does that mean. Sex is not a feeling. I dont feel like 'a woman'. I dont know what that means

Datun · 23/07/2017 16:37

I haven't finished the full thread. I'm still reeling from this news.

But I had to address your comment ginflumpsandzebraprint

One of these kids is booked for gender reassignment for their birthday? How easy can he change his mind later ?

Children who identify as trans will be given puberty blockers on the cusp of puberty, so between nine and 12 years old. Statistically, 100% of children who start puberty blockers will go on to have cross sex hormones.

The genitalia will be arrested at prepubescent immaturity and the cross-sex hormones will start to give them secondary sex characteristics.

If left alone, 80% of gender nonconforming children will grow up to be gay. It takes them going through puberty to reconcile their identity.

Jazz Jennings is such a child. He is the poster child for TVs I Am Jazz. He was given puberty blockers, then cross sex hormones. At 16 he has the face of a girl, the body of a woman and the genitalia of a prepubescent boy.

He went to his doctor (his mother's cousin) for the decision about surgery. He has been told that his penis is too small to create a vagina. They will have to use some other part of his body.

His libido and sexual function is compromised. The head of the penis is usually placed to mimic the clitoris in adults But because of the puberty blockers his is too small.

He doesn't know if he wants surgery now.

If he does he will have to dilate his neo vagina regularly for the rest of his life and take hormones for the rest of his life.

He is permanently sterile as a result of the drugs.

He worries that he is undatable.

If he had been left alone he had every chance of being amongst the 80% who grow up gay.

instead of a boy who identifies as a girl with the face and body of a female and the genitalia of a male child, permanently sterile, no libido and on drugs for the rest of his life.

If people believe, truly believe that transgenderism is a real thing and not a mental health issue, they must also agree that jazz Jennings is an example to trans kids and he was quite right to make the decision when he was 11 years old.

And that this course of action should be enshrined in civil rights.

Majora · 23/07/2017 16:38

If you identify as no gender, you're likely non-binary, so that falls under the trans umbrella. I'm non-binary. I'd love an X on my passport, if only so I'm legally recognised as so.

Trans women are not men.

Smellbellina · 23/07/2017 16:38

I dont feel like 'a woman'. I dont know what that means
Somebody should ask Shania Twain, she knows.

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 16:40

She used the male restroom out of fear of being chased out of the ladies' and was harassed and sexually abused.

You dont think this happens to women? Out in real life everyday? Why does her right to not want to use a private space with people who have a penis, trumo my right to not eant to use private space next to someone with a penis.

Its not about toilets. Its about rights. She doesnt want to be in close proximity to people with penis', neither do i. But i will be forced to accept it.

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