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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Cocolepew · 23/07/2017 14:46

How does this work in Safeguarding children?
I work with children with significant additional needs. 2 males are not allowed to change a female pupil, but a male can accompany a female member of staff to help with a male pupil.
Are all school policies relating to this going to be obsolete?

PlymouthMaid1 · 23/07/2017 14:49

Where is the survey?

PencilsInSpace · 23/07/2017 14:50

If we're doing a govt. petition it's very important to get it right first time. They will reject any petition if there's already one open that's broadly similar and AFAIK you can't delete them once they're accepted. So if we do one that's not quite worded right, we might be stuck with it until it expires.

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 14:51

Given that men who have sex with men who identify as women, and men who identify as women and have sex with men, have NO deferral period (because that's not men having sex with men ), and the transfusion service already works on self ID, why are they bothering having any deferral period at all for men who have sex with men? <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/272941/response/676502/attach/html/3/JacobsSamRpy.pdf.html" target="_blank">FOI heree*.

Bloody hell, I hadn't considered blood donation in the slightest.

That's got to be legally actionable at some point by someone.

Sadly, I suspect not until the "self ID" policy has caused the transmission of serious illnesses to blood recipients.

Smellbellina · 23/07/2017 14:51

I also wonder how it will work with things like intimate searches for prisoners? Who will do the strip search for self ID woman who is physically male? Would it be illegal to refuse? And conversely would a female prisoner be forced to accept a strip search from a male IDing as a woman?

PencilsInSpace · 23/07/2017 14:51

Survey

Govt. announcement

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 14:53

I'm going to start a thread in the quiet place for drafting efforts, if that's okay OP?

I think pencils has a point.

TinyRick · 23/07/2017 14:56

How in the hell did we get to this place???
Men still shitting on women. That's how.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 14:56

Great thanks and please Serf

I agree about getting it right pencils
I'm off out shortly but will look in later.

OP posts:
AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 14:59

Tiny

"How in the hell did we get to this place???
Men still shitting on women. That's how."

I don't think that's fair. It's those idiots that have swallowed the identity politics nonsense and there are plenty of women who support this crap. Although it is very harmful to women and girls, it is also going to affect everyone. And the only ones getting a say are left wing nutjobs who are telling us who is the most oppressed

OP posts:
andintothefire · 23/07/2017 15:00

Oh the irony of Danielle Muscato calling out Abercrombie & Fitch for suggesting that Gay Pride is for everyone.. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40240240

Quote: "Pride is about being proud of being LGBTQ. That's why it's called #Pride. If you respect us, don't co-opt that - especially for profit!"

Diamondlife · 23/07/2017 15:00

Ms Greening also launched a survey to get LGBT people to help shape government policy in the future

Op: If you petition against this you'll be seen as hypocritical and a 'throwback'. You can't support the rights of one minority but totally dismiss the rights of another. That makes you look insincere, and lacking in any real understanding of what being in a minority actually means. Do you support the rights of gay people but not trans? Is that because the rights of gay people will have no impact on your life ( so you'll wave their flag because it means nothing really ) but you'll go absolutely crazy if another minority wants rights that you don't agree with.
You just can't do that and remain credible.

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 15:01

I've PMed you Assigned and Pencils

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 15:03

but you'll go absolutely crazy if another minority wants rights that you don't agree with.

No diamond. You mean rights that remove womens rights and put women rights back years.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 15:03

Go and read up on this Diamond. I don't have time to educate you.

Plenty of threads about it in Feminist Chat

OP posts:
SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 15:05

You know what's REALLY needed? A small, official, quotable, joirno-friendly lobby group with a roster of spokeswomen and some agreed policy positions.

EmpressoftheMundane · 23/07/2017 15:06

Sure you can, Diamond. Your right to swing yout arm ends precisely where my nose ends.

sticklebrix · 23/07/2017 15:06

You can't support the rights of one minority but totally dismiss the rights of another.

Women aren't a minority. But it's our rights that self ID will trample.

sticklebrix · 23/07/2017 15:07

SerfTerf I completely agree.

andintothefire · 23/07/2017 15:09

SerfTerf - I am a lawyer if that is a helpful skill set for the lobbying group!

SmileEachDay · 23/07/2017 15:10

but you'll go absolutely crazy if another minority wants rights that you don't agree with.

I'll definitely stand against the rights of a minority groups who want something that puts vulnerable people in danger, yes.

SmileEachDay · 23/07/2017 15:11

SerfTerf - I'm in education, if that's helpful?

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 15:11

stickle and into I've PMed you too

Lurkedforever1 · 23/07/2017 15:12

diamond bollocks.

What a ludicrous comparison. Do you think everyone against race discrimination should be equally willing to support human sacrifice if a bunch of predators claim it is their religion and culture?

Gay rights are about gay rights, not about shitting all over females like this is.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 23/07/2017 15:14

'Why are we only mentioning transwomen? What about transmen? No, I don't think you can be transracial or transspecies, because science doesn't support that. Science recognises transgender as a thing, because gender is a social construct.'

Race is also a social construct. It was thought up by the Victorians as a way of dividing human beings into groups with white Europeans, and most especially white Anglo Saxons at the top and everyone else further down a hierarchy. There are ethnic groups, of course, but race is no more real than gender.
Also, services and facilities are not divided according to gender but according to sex, and science does not support the possibility of changing sex.