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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/07/2017 14:18

And the Masons Artiss. And put your lego playing daughters down for Eton.

Artaccount · 23/07/2017 14:19

Coming out of lurking for the first time in months. Placemarking so that I can sign any petition/get involved in any campaign. This is utter horseshit.

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 14:19

eubyru i would be interested in knowing which bank. If its mine i will change.

How the fuck can some people be allowed time off for beauty treatments and not other people? Regardless of sex or self id gender.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 14:19

P.S. Babycham I can now do the survey because I think you're gorgeous so am now Bi

OP posts:
eubyru · 23/07/2017 14:19

I know when I seen the thing about waxing I was a bit Hmm

eubyru · 23/07/2017 14:20

It's santander. Some senior managers weren't happy about it.

Zipp · 23/07/2017 14:21

Have you seen this piece in yesterday's Morning Star? www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-cbbb-Self-identification-and-the-struggle-for-equal-rights#.WXSizuko_IU

The author is trans.

eubyru · 23/07/2017 14:21

It states managers have to accommodate as best they can with those requests and not make the person feel bad or discriminated against.

sleighbellend · 23/07/2017 14:22

Babycham, I don't have a gender identity. I'm just female. Surely, by your definition, that makes me agender and thus fully welcome to fill in that survey?

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 23/07/2017 14:23

That's a very good article, Zipp, and Debbie Hayton comes across as exactly the sort of sane, thoughtful person who I can find common ground with.

stolemyusername · 23/07/2017 14:24

Great, looking forward to hanging up my ovaries and the new women can take over.

Oh wait, they can't as THEY ARE STILL FUCKING MEN AND DON'T HAVE THE ANATOMY OF A WOMAN.

You cannot change your biological self by signing a piece of paper and making a promise. It's not the fucking brownies!

Nobody will be safe whist the opposite sex can get easy access to their safe spaces, and please don't try to convince me that this won't be abused and that sexual predators won't suddenly have easier access to their victims.

SmileEachDay · 23/07/2017 14:27

Yeah, v sensible article.

jellyfrizz · 23/07/2017 14:27

That's the problem with identity isn't it? You cannot tell someone else how they identify.

MineKraftCheese · 23/07/2017 14:29

"don't co-opt a survey not meant for you"

I filled the survey in because I consider myself trans. I don't conform to feminine stereotypes. According to Stonewall that makes me a trans man

PencilsInSpace · 23/07/2017 14:30

This, from the same announcement, is bizarre:

The Government has also announced that the deferral blood donation period for men who have sex with men, will be reduced from 12 months to three months increasing the supply of donor blood available for life-saving operations.

Given that men who have sex with men who identify as women, and men who identify as women and have sex with men, have NO deferral period (because that's not men having sex with men Hmm), and the transfusion service already works on self ID, why are they bothering having any deferral period at all for men who have sex with men? FOI here.

It's a total farce!

TinyRick · 23/07/2017 14:30

baby

So I guess you would regard Danielle Muscato and Stefonknee Wolsht as 'stunning and brave' transwomen who should be in female spaces?

Plus all those middle aged porn sick, loli hentai watching, 'panty' wearing, 'hello kitty' shirt wearing 'cute tgirls'?

Have you even looked into Sissies?

Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side
Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side
GladAllOver · 23/07/2017 14:32

What a bunch of crap this is.
At our local pool a man can declare himself a woman for the day and get undressed in the women's changing room. If anyone complains they will be guilty of discrimination.
It's so fucking stupid I just can't believe it is actually happening. Perhaps that's the idea?

Addley · 23/07/2017 14:33

I don't know any gay person who wants the T there either. I know a few B people who do but the B people I know have never been in a same sex relationship so...

What you're implying here is pretty nasty. A bisexual's point of view is just as valid as that of a homosexual. Whether or not that person is in a same-sex relationship. (Speaking only for myself, natch, the majority of people I meet who want a relationship with a woman are straight men, bisexuals of whatever kind, or gay women. The majority of people would consider themselves straight. Which means the vast majority of the people I meet who I could end up in a relationship with are men. That's probably going to mean that most bisexual women, like me, are going to be in relationships with men.)

It's possible that bisexuals, having historically experienced discrimination from gays and lesbians as well as straights, are more likely to be keen on including what they see as another marginalised group. Personally, I'm unsure about grouping T (and I for intersex) with LGB, as it's not a sexuality. However, historically, transgender, transvestite and other groups have been allied with minority sexuality groups and involved in some of the same fights, so it's complicated.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/07/2017 14:35

Sensible article, but she doesn't seem to realise that the barriers have already come down in sport.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 23/07/2017 14:38

If / when this goes through, it will be irrelevant whether some bloke has filled in the form before making themselves comfortable in the women's changing room at the local gym. Because even asking that question will be illegal.

sticklebrix · 23/07/2017 14:39

BabychamSocialist I have decided to self ID as agender in order to fill out that form. I honestly don't understand why this is wrong, since gender has never been a part of my identity. I am female. Beyond that it's all stereotype (as evidenced by the fact that gendered behaviour is inconsistent throughout history and presents differently all over the world).

The Harvard blog post by a grad student has not been peer-reviewed as far as I can tell. It is way too light on recent, peer reviewed studies to convince me. I would expect to see an overwhelming body of evidence in order to justify such huge changes to the legal framework.

Lurkedforever1 · 23/07/2017 14:40

babycham I have always considered myself a member of the female sex who is equally inclined to stereotypical male interests as well as female. It's your philosophy, not mine, that now dictates I am non binary. And therefore it's my right to complete the survey.

Alternatively, I could just follow trans logic and self identify as a lesbian. If anyone mentions the fact I am not sexually attracted to women they are just being heterophobic.

TinyRick · 23/07/2017 14:43

Sports -

This bloke, oops 'woman' looks pretty smug. And he is off to the olympics to represent 'women'

Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side
Brazenhussy0 · 23/07/2017 14:44

Shock Sad Angry

Can’t believe this. Basic scientific biology being flung out the window then?

Born with a cock and XY = biologically male
Born with a vagina and XX = biologically female

That shouldn’t be offensive to anyone. It’s science. It’s fact.
Just because some people believe with all their hearts that the Earth is flat, doesn’t make it so.

People can dress how they want, wear makeup if they want, get fake tits or fiddle with their hormones all they like and should be able to do so without being mocked, bullied or assaulted for it – but it doesn’t change biology.

Gender and biological sex are being purposefully conflated here (and the conspiracy theorist in me suspects the timing of this has a lot to do with many women waking up to the fact that male violence is the root cause of most of our global problems.)
What better way to hide male violence statistics, than turning men into women?

As for the practicalities, how the hell is this even going to work from a medical standpoint? If anyone is in a position to argue against this insanity, it’s surely people who work in medicine and healthcare?

Regardless, I think it’s safe to say we’ve catastrophically lost this war already. If it’s already gone this far, those who want it to go ahead will make sure that it does. We need to prepare for that.

PittTheMiddleOneNoOneMentions · 23/07/2017 14:45

*AssignedMentalatBirth

OK. Calling all lurking MPs and journalists: take note

I will not vote for ANY party that supports this regressive bullshit

I couldn't agree more. This is utterly ridiculous.

Changing gender is not something that should be open to everyone just because today a perverted heterosexual man feels like a wander through the girl's changing rooms to see the tits.

Respecting LGBT rights and diversity can be done without creating such a fatuous system that is open to abuse.

How in the hell did we get to this place???