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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
PencilsInSpace · 23/07/2017 14:01

Have your say, but don't co-opt a survey not meant for you.

Eh? I thought you were in favour of self-ID Confused Had you just not realised what it means?

TinyRick · 23/07/2017 14:02

FFS.

Anyone who says 'I'm a feminist' and believes that Transwomen are women are fucking stupid with not one iota of a grasp on science and are most definitely not a feminist. At all.

I can see Australia going this way. Fuck.

BabychamSocialist · 23/07/2017 14:02

I am in favour of self-ID. However it's clear that many of you do not identify as any of the criteria for that survey.

jellyfrizz · 23/07/2017 14:02

*Have your say, but don't co-opt a survey not meant for you.

Eh? I thought you were in favour of self-ID confused Had you just not realised what it means?*

^So much this!!!!

eubyru · 23/07/2017 14:04

I work for a large UK bank.

Last week we just introduced a new gender identity policy. In the policy it states they can use whatever toilet facilities they feel comfortable using and no one can say anything.

It also says that they are allowed time off for waxing, medical appointments and therapy.

But it's been made clear that if you speak up about anything then you could get disciplined

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/07/2017 14:04

I find it amazing that over the Internet you can tell that no one here is lesbian, bisexual, non-binary, agender etc etc. It's a real skill.

jellyfrizz · 23/07/2017 14:04

I am in favour of self-ID. However it's clear that many of you do not identify as any of the criteria for that survey.

Are you assuming my sexual and/or gender identity? You have no clue of my (or anyone else on this thread) lived experience.

Smellbellina · 23/07/2017 14:04

Babycham the whole point of the survey is regarding laws enabling people to self identify. You can't tell people not to self identify re a survey regarding self identification.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/07/2017 14:05

Hell yeah. If a man can identify as a woman even though he has never lived as a woman or behaved like a woman, well then any of us can identify as anything can't we?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 23/07/2017 14:05

I've done the survey. It is a broadd, poorly thought out instrument that will do little more than gather basic demographic information about a range of people who do not identify as 'straight' and it certainly will not offer any evidence one way or the other for the proposed bill. I wonder how much was spent on it?

VestalVirgin · 23/07/2017 14:07

I don't have a feminine or masculine gender identity, so according to the genderists, I am non-binary or agender. Totally allowed to participate in that survey.

And while I myself don't identify as any of that nonsense, I identify as person whose opinion matters.

Slimthistime · 23/07/2017 14:08

Eubyru "It also says that they are allowed time off for waxing, medical appointments and therapy"

Um, time off for waxing? If that's available to one person, it should be available to all.

Surely time off for medical is allowed for everyone anyway?

StatelessPrincess · 23/07/2017 14:10

eubyru Time off for waxing?! As in ''boss, I won't be able to attend that meeting, my bikini line needs sorted''???

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/07/2017 14:10

Yeah it is basically "Are you queer and are people sometimes mean to you because of it?"

Surely "How do you feel about no born women winning athletics medals in the next Olympics?" is slightly more relevant here?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 23/07/2017 14:11

It also says that they are allowed time off for waxing, medical appointments and therapy

How much time off is allowed for compassionate leave (in comparison)? Just curious.

Slimthistime · 23/07/2017 14:12

I'm confused by the criteria for the survey
I would say I'm gender non binary because that's a gender description and I don't allocate gender qualities to myself or anyone else

Biologically I'm a woman

Am I allowed to participate?

PencilsInSpace · 23/07/2017 14:13

I am in favour of self-ID. However it's clear that many of you do not identify as any of the criteria for that survey.

Make your mind up now, can people ID however they want or not?

As it happens, I filled it in quite honestly as a bisexual person and used the 'other' box to point out that I don't 'ID' as bi, I just AM bi because I'm attracted to both sexes and that's what bi means.

I don't think this survey is the whole consultation. The consultation on the GRA will be published in the autumn according to the government website.

Rumandraisin1 · 23/07/2017 14:13

I'll be filling in the survey as I am a lesbian (or a transphobic vagina-fetishist according to the TRAs.) It's outrageous that not all women are invited to comment on this but if trans means not identifying with the gender (ie stereotypes) that correspond with your sex I think we're probably all trans anyway.

Artisanjam · 23/07/2017 14:14

Eubyru - are people who identify as their born sex allowed time off for waxing etc as well or just those who've changed. If so isn't that discriminatory?

I'm going to identify as a man and start joining golf clubs. And the MCC.

Slimthistime · 23/07/2017 14:15

Re waxing, my sister has a condition that means she has loads of facial hair and it's a nightmare to sort
She does that on her own time
Maybe she should claim time off under medical anyway
But certainly if this rule comes in for trans people she must be allowed equal treatment?

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 23/07/2017 14:16

Well, I've been told that "cis" means having your gender identity aligned with your biological sex. I don't have an internal gender identity, which I guess would make me legitimately agender. Regarding gender stereotypes I tick some from the masculine box (a lot actually) and some from the feminine box (long hair and shaved legs being the only ones I can think of right now) so I guess to others I would probably come across as gender fluid.

But the bottom line is that this is a consultation on laws which will affect women - women's wards in hospitals, women's prisons, women's health care provision, women's sports. And yet women are not being consulted.

SpartacusSaiman · 23/07/2017 14:16

baby i wear trousers. Never skirts. Dont wear make up and my head is shaved. My hobbies are much more popular with men than women.

If you agree with self id. I can choose to id as a man. Or gender fluid and id as a transman for the duration of the survey. Surely thats right?

Besides which, these issues dont only impact the LGBT community. They impact women as well. Its disgraceful that a consultation is only going to be done with the lbgt community.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 14:17

Luckily, you don't get to tell us what to do Babycham . Off to fill out the survey Grin

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 23/07/2017 14:17

A difficult issue for me is the conflation of L/G/B with T.

I fully support LGB people in every way - someone's sexuality is their own business and does not impact on anyone else's life one iota. I would absolutely be in support of any act which helped this community stamp out any remaining discrimination.

But as soon as the T is part of the same movement, there is an immediate clash - I can't be as wholehearted as I am with the LGB community, because there IS an impact upon women. Its unfortunate that the TAs have refused to engage in measured debate about the safe space issue, looked at perhaps campaigning for T safe spaces. I would have thrown myself behind something like this with enthusiasm.

I find myself looking at the LGBT survey and feeling sad for my LGB friends and family, that essentially they are being used as a vehicle for something much darker then it suggests.

Identifyasabraziliansupermodel · 23/07/2017 14:18

Petition to oppose self ID here - please sign and share you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/no-to-the-erasure-of-women-and-abolition-of-our-spaces