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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:31

I think Whiskey just peaktransed
I don't even know what this means Confused

glenthebattleostrich · 23/07/2017 13:33

Peaktransed is the point you realise how harmful this agenda is and how dangerous it is for women.

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:33

Yes thanks, Glen. I'm sorry I'm not up to speed on it all but I genuinely thought there would be workarounds!

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:34

Oh i see!

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:34

This really isn't the best thread to study the whole issue from scratch.

Is there a better thread for the uninitiated to start with?

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:36

*AssignedMentalAtBirth

She's still derailing Serf, just changing tactics. All the 'genuine' questions will start now, so as to stop us talking about taking action. Ignore*
No, sorry, no tactics just under informed I guess.

catgirl1976 · 23/07/2017 13:39

I am baffled and horrified.

I don't really care how people want to dress or live or be addressed, I really don't. I am sure there are a small number of people who are genuinely and chromosomally in the "wrong body" and who should be supported and given the treatment they need to transition.

But you cannot have a situation where a male rapist says "I'm female" and goes to a woman's prison. Or plays on a female football team. Let alone what this will do to women's rights in terms of things like pay and representation.

I just don't get it. Surely if I decided to identify as black that would just be massively offensive because I am not black, have no experience of being black and then if I got to be the next PM went say "Look everyone I'm the first black Prime Minister"? people would be rightly outraged and bemused?

Is the problem not that we assign gender to stuff like wearing a dress or make up or liking football?

Could we not just say that it really doesn't matter what you like to wear or do or say or like and that it's fine for men to wear dresses and women to play football but at the end of the day if you have a penis you're a man, if you have a vagina you're a woman?

I just don't get it.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/07/2017 13:40

I kissed a girl and I liked it (just once, about 30 years ago). So I guess that makes me bi. Have filled in the LGBT survey and used my 500 words to give full my vent to my feelings about the erasure of women.

Will be suggesting my daughter (definitely bi, she currently has a girlfriend), and my extremely unmacho (so trans then) DS and DP do the same.

claritytobeclear · 23/07/2017 13:40

What I would be interested in is are there any statistics to show whether unisex spaces or spaces segregated by sex are safer?

If men are genuinely supportive and prepared to defend women being attacked I could see that a unisex space would indeed be safer.

Do unisex uniforms promote more or less equality? I would say more but only if they genuinely cater to the biological clothing needs (support etc) of both sexes.

InfiniteCurve · 23/07/2017 13:41

non-trans women are capable of doing everything (good and bad) that transwomen & men pretending to be transwomen are.

Well,that's news to me.I had thought there were things that I couldn't do,cos of,well biology.Like anything that needs a penis...?

catgirl1976 · 23/07/2017 13:47

Is there a link to the consultation survey? I have slept with a couple of women in the past so I must be bi and therefore able to comment.

BabychamSocialist · 23/07/2017 13:48

Oh great, you're going to flood a survey for LGBTQ+ people with your comments. And you wonder why people feel marginalised!

Have your say, but don't co-opt a survey not meant for you. Write an e-mail, lobby your MP or start a petition by all means, but this isn't fair on LGBTQ+ people who actually want their opinion to be heard.

DJBaggySmalls · 23/07/2017 13:50

This Violence Database is comprised of incidents of sexual violence in safe spaces for women (showers, changerooms, bathrooms)

womanmeanssomething.com/violencedatabase/

No one cares about violence to women.

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/07/2017 13:50

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/national-lgbt-survey

I'm being particularly paranoid, but I would suggest copying and pasting it into your browser rather than clicking through from here.

ginflumpsandzebraprint · 23/07/2017 13:51

This is my worst nightmare, my dd1 (13) already has gender-fluid friends who have no real concept of what they are or what this actually means but because they go to LGBT places to socialise safely, they believe this is a great idea. Yet when I explain the truth. They are totally brainwashed into thinking, murderers,rapists etc won't be allowed to do things and that they can always change their minds ? One of these kids is booked for gender reassignment for their birthday? How easy can he change his mind later ?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 23/07/2017 13:53

Have your say, but don't co-opt a survey not meant for you. Write an e-mail, lobby your MP or start a petition by all means, but this isn't fair on LGBTQ+ people who actually want their opinion to be heard

Er yeah. Coz they are the only ones whose opinions have been sought, even though the proposed changes affect a huge section of the population.

Why don't you run off now and get the rest of your trans mates to come and back you up?

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/07/2017 13:53

Babycham are you saying that the people here who don't have a gender identity aren't allowed to identify that way, and therefore shouldn't fill out the survey? According to Stonewall they're trans, agender, non-binary or similar. Never mind the women here who identify as bisexual. Is it ok for women here to identify as bisexual, or are you going to act as gatekeeper for that identity?

Smellbellina · 23/07/2017 13:54

@SerfTerf I think it needs to highlight how people being able to choose gender will work practically with regards to women's sports (I think that's an important one that shouldn't be missed) and spaces such as refuges, women's prisons. The onus should be on all being allowed to be and feel safe. That all should be protected, you can not seek to protect one vulnerable group by side lining the rights and needs of another.
Both need to be considered. Heck some fall into both groups! God help them.
We are not anti trans we are standing for the safety and welfare of all
Apart from GG and JM is anyone else on our side? I'm feeling all at sea.

catgirl1976 · 23/07/2017 13:56

Thank you assassinated - completed with a strongly worded 500 words at the end

SeaWitchly · 23/07/2017 13:58

Still Spartacus.

BabychamSocialist · 23/07/2017 13:58

YetAnotherSpartacus

My trans friends have got better things to do. Plus, we can't have you getting scared by them.

catgirl1976 · 23/07/2017 13:59

Babycham -I am not co-opting anything. I've got every right to fill in the survey. Every woman has the right to fill in that bloody survey. Given it will affect us and we only get asked if we identify as LGBT. Fucking disgrace.

VestalVirgin · 23/07/2017 13:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PenelopeParmesan · 23/07/2017 14:00

Babycham, the issues that the survey is consulting on affect women, hugely.

As stakeholders I suggest we should be contributing to the consultation.

MajesticWhine · 23/07/2017 14:00

I self identity as B ish. Where's the form, please can someone link?