Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
glenthebattleostrich · 23/07/2017 13:21

Can I suggest we all start by filling in the survey with lots of prefer not to say then add something at the end questioning why women's views are not being requested as they will be the ones predominantly affected.

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:21

Okay @Whisky2014 but I'm not really in the market for engaging with your TRA twaddle today.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 23/07/2017 13:21

'Transwomen need to widen the bandwidth of maleness, not invade female space'

This times a million.

Although I suppose it's one way of closing that pesky gender pay gap, just have all the CEOs say they're women, job done.

Still Spartacus.

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:22

Reported Stateless.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 13:22

Serf

I think there's a title and a short summary, with detailed explanation below so the summary part needs to be as concise as possible

OP posts:
IdentifiesAsASquirrel · 23/07/2017 13:22

It's one of those bills that has a name that I can't remember. Basically has a name that indicates if you campaign against it you're anti-whatever but actually deep in the bill is a monumental erosion of rights

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:23

Whisky are you thick?

No (s)he's derailing.

PencilsInSpace · 23/07/2017 13:24

It's not a bill yet, it's still at consultation stage, but if you read the gov.uk page it's clear they've already decided what the right answer will be.

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:24

Okay. What's the word allowance for each bit?

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:24

No. I was debating. And now some people have told me what would happen in my examples I see now the issue. Ffs

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:25

Stop expecting everyone to know what the real problems are

jellyfrizz · 23/07/2017 13:25

If you don't wish to be constrained by gender stereotypes or are gender critical you can identify as agender which is considered trans.

And if you don't conform 100% to masculine or feminine norms (whatever they may be) then you are non-binary.

In either case you have every right to respond to the survey.

StatelessPrincess · 23/07/2017 13:25

Go for it whisky, you seem to be almost deliberately misunderstanding the situation and coming up with solutions to a problem that legally won't be allowed to exist. You don't get it or you are choosing not to.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 13:26

OK, we need to do this quickly but properly. Anyone interested in wording a petition please PM me. Any writers out there? Any assistance very welcome

OP posts:
IdentifiesAsASquirrel · 23/07/2017 13:26

I know it's in consultation but there is a specific name for this type of thing - so they want to bring in an anti-kitten killing bill but deep within it it states killing babies will become legal in its stead. Oppose the anti kitten killing and you're evil.

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:26

No actually. I just said I am now seeing the issues!

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:26

Ah, yes of course @PencilsInSpace thanks.

Does something about "seek assurances about access... something something.....services for biological girls and women" sound promising?

PencilsInSpace · 23/07/2017 13:27

For the petition, how about proposing an alternative: new protections from discrimination for people who are gender non-conforming, and at the same time ringfencing sex based protections, if that makes sense? Neatly sidesteps all the slippery 'identification' stuff, which is where the danger is as it's legislating around a feeling in someone's head.

claritytobeclear · 23/07/2017 13:28

Yes, if only men would stop raping us. The the stickler. Drat

Assigned, I agree this is indeed the sticking point. If the majority of males were true feminists and stood aside women to condemn abuses it would allow for greater strength in the fight for equality. Having men around in changing rooms and toilets would then be an added bonus. It is unfortunate that, whist men are unable/unwilling to do this, having to have segregated spaces reinforce the idea that men are somehow biologically driven to abuse, which could be used by some to minimise their personal responsibility. Reinforcing gender stereotypes at the same time.

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:28

You've lost me @Whisky2014

That sounded uncannily as though you were doggedly arguing against all reasonable concerns, in quite a sustained way.

RunningWild12 · 23/07/2017 13:29

I'm a 52 year old woman and I've never worn make-up or high heels. Must be a non-binary/trans/mermaid/unicorn. Will full in the form.

PencilsInSpace · 23/07/2017 13:29

I think Whiskey just peaktransed!

fruitlovingmonkey · 23/07/2017 13:31

I'm so mad about this.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 13:31

She's still derailing Serf, just changing tactics. All the 'genuine' questions will start now, so as to stop us talking about taking action. Ignore

OP posts:
glenthebattleostrich · 23/07/2017 13:31

Ok, the point of this thread is to show the issues. Attacking posters for asking questions is not going to help.

Whiskey is where I was 18 months ago, so let's provide evidence rather than pander to the 'angry feminazi' stereotype.

The majority of people I know don't realise that MTT can compete against women in sport, that most MTT keep their penises, have never heard of autogenephelia or the MRAs pushing the agenda. They don't know about detransition or that the majority of Children who identify as trans don't transition and are most often confused by their sexuality (and I know quote a few teachers).

We need to bring people along with us not alienate them for asking questions. Yes it can be frustrating but it is important.

Swipe left for the next trending thread