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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:09

Well yes OP. I'm still waiting for you to do something

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:11

Why are these rights given away? You could have "female from birth and for life" only spaces.

SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 13:11

I'm not waiting for you to do something OP. I would like the wording of the petition to be carefully discussed collectively.

If anyone has templates from previous letters to MPs, that would be really helpful. I know people have written previously.

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:12

Female from birth and female for life only sports clubs

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:12

What about maternity services and BMA's "pregnant people" @Whisky2014?

Any recognition that women gestate, lactate or menstruate will become verboten because to recognise it will be discriminatory.

What will the implications be for cervical smear screening programmes or mammograms?

Organisations will be required to "recognise" male penises, male testicular cancer etc and that "women" are us likely to have a prostate as a womb (for example). The ramifications are almost limitless.

StatelessPrincess · 23/07/2017 13:12

For a start Whisky if I request a female doctor I could be given a male who identifies as female. Is that fair? Do you want to deny women and children who have been abused by men the right to medical treatment without having their genitals seen or touched by men?

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 13:12

Whisky Ah now, you're just boring me. Bu-bye!

serf I think the Government one is best and if it reaches over 100,000, the issue must be debated. If we get to that stage we need to lobby MPs etc and ideally have a protest march in London. I would certainly come to London for that

OP posts:
SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:13

Female penises, that is.

SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 13:13

Whisky, the proposed laws mean that you can't have those female only things. They would be illegal.

FirstShinyRobe · 23/07/2017 13:13

That's transphobic talk, Whisky2014.

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:13

serf I think the Government one is best and if it reaches over 100,000, the issue must be debated.

Yes.

BahHumbygge · 23/07/2017 13:14

"Female from birth and female for life only sports clubs" would be deemed transexclusionary and discriminatory.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/07/2017 13:14

Well medical care will change because if you request a woman medical professional, you can get out with a beard and a penis. And if you are in hospital, you an be sleeping on a ward and sharing spaces whllst you are feeling vulnerable with someone with a beard and a penis.

claritytobeclear · 23/07/2017 13:14

Ideally, as I have said on another thread, I would like toilets and changing rooms to be unisex ones which fully allow for individual privacy (floor to ceiling cubicles). I think these type of facilities are easier to staff and will be able to be more open to the rest of the building so safer. Personally, I feel particularly vulnerable in deserted segregated spaces.

However, I appreciate not all women feel as I do. Those who have been abused by men, for example, understandably, may feel safer in a women only setting.

The thing is if all facilities were unisex, clothes and uniforms were considered unisex, etc, whilst catering to the biological needs of each sex, issues surrounding gender would be blown out of the water.

However gender and gender identity will remain an issue for as long as there are differences between how each sex is treated and expected to behave and look.

PencilsInSpace · 23/07/2017 13:16

Shit.

Government announcement.

There's a link to a survey on that page for anyone who is LGBT. There's a box at the end that gives you 500 words for comments. You can also have fun with the 'other' boxes on the questions about how you identify.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 13:17

The thing is if all facilities were unisex, clothes and uniforms were considered unisex, etc, whilst catering to the biological needs of each sex, issues surrounding gender would be blown out of the water

Yes, if only men would stop raping us. The the stickler. Drat

OP posts:
Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:17

In jobs relating to health and medical issues then I would expect there to be background checks caried out on any Dr identifying as a different gender. And if you specifically ask for a female not a trans then you will see a female.
What I am trying to say is, there will be a resolution about any of these issues...I have no doubt.
Any recognition that women gestate, lactate or menstruate will become verboten because to recognise it will be discriminatory I'm not sure what it matters if we say women or person giving birth? If anything, it will promote the fact female born people do menstruation and lactate etc because I expect trans men will need a place to breastfeed and change their tampons. Not just women.

jellyfrizz · 23/07/2017 13:18

I don't see how medical care will change? Infanct anything from your list. It's all very dramatic

Men and women have different bodies (it's why they were given different names in the first place).

An example of how this matters for medical care: men have parts of the body that women don't and may develop cancer in those parts. Prostate cancer is very common in older men. If a trans woman is legally a women they will not be checked for prostate cancer even if presenting with the symptoms - because women cannot get prostate cancer, it is impossible.

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:18

Okay petition title something about opposing the Bill (what's it's full name?) because of its deleterious effect on the spaces and services of women and girls, particularly in respect of fields X, Y and Z (Healthcare, Justice and Sport???)

Pick three strong example areas and FFS don't mention toilets Smile

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:19

Then isn't there a text area to expand on the title?

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 13:19

Pencil
Identify as transgender and complete the form

I am now to be known as Persephone. Pronouns are Fuck/You

Grin
OP posts:
StatelessPrincess · 23/07/2017 13:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FirstShinyRobe · 23/07/2017 13:20

According to the Stonewall definitions (Trans – an umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth; Gender – often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth.), most feminists are trans, so can happily complete the survey.

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:20

Ok so what I suggested as fix around wouldn't be allowed because trans folk want to be able to use them? Hmm

jellyfrizz · 23/07/2017 13:21

In jobs relating to health and medical issues then I would expect there to be background checks caried out on any Dr identifying as a different gender. And if you specifically ask for a female not a trans then you will see a female.

No. That would be discriminatory.

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