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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 12:59

Op you keep asking if a petition has started, we need to take action, MNHQ need to pick a side. What have you actually done? Why don't you start a petition? Why don't you write to your MP? Why are you waiting on someone else to do it for you?

FirstShinyRobe · 23/07/2017 12:59

Ladybrain studies have been consistently debunked. Besides, it's not because of brains that women have been oppressed, it's because of reproductive biology. As surely any feminist knows?

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:00

Good point Babycham!

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:00

Yes petition would be good.

Someone start one. (No need to specify who here for outing reasons.) Then post it in "petitions" and link here.

VestalVirgin · 23/07/2017 13:01

What would happen if we mobilised thousands of women to commit to making a statutory declaration that we are men in order to gain access to male only clubs, places of worship etc? That seems like the sort of thing the suffragettes might have done!

Let's try that. The men in power will no doubt find a way to prevent us actually getting in there, as with primogeniture, but let's try and see them try to come up with justifications that don't reveal that they actually do not believe in genderism but just love and worship the trans movement because it takes away women's rights.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 13:01

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-sex-crimes-schools-255-cent-four-years

But 'feminists' protect the men

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 23/07/2017 13:01

non-trans women are capable of doing everything (good and bad) that transwomen & men pretending to be transwomen are

They can't rape. That, in the UK at least, requires a penis.

They don't commit sexual assaults at anything approaching the rate men do.

They don't commit violent crime at anything approaching the rate men do.

Transwomen crime rates and profiles is largely, AFAIK, in line with male crimes rate and profile.

Please don't try and argue that women are just as high risk as men.

SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 13:02

Generally, people are happy with single occupancy room toilets, Babycham. They are everywhere and there's really no debate over them.

Maybe we should move on, without resorting to personal insult.

Atenco · 23/07/2017 13:02

No, I don't think you can be transracial or transspecies, because science doesn't support that. Science recognises transgender as a thing, because gender is a social construct

Very strange. Gender and race are both social constructs. Sex is a biological fact.

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:03

Let's try that.

Yes I'm completely, seriously up for that.

Now can we PLEASE have a moratorium on discussing the finer points of lavatorial design and agree best way to coordinate lobbying/ petition efforts, in case there is still hope of at least watering down this legislation?

jellyfrizz · 23/07/2017 13:03

Also, male and female disabled people nearly always have to share the same facilities, but nobody seems to be thinking about their safety or how they feel?

Disabled facilities are usually individual rooms if not within a single-sex toileting area. Non one is forced to toilet in the the same room at the same time as a member of the opposite sex.

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:04

We can't move on because it's the one single argument there is to protest it. From what I can see!

zinniazuri · 23/07/2017 13:04

Whisky

It's not just toilets. It's changing rooms, saunas/spas (nude ones, where some are single sex, soon could not be... while still legally claiming to be female-only), prisons, women's refugees etc.

Sure, they'll do it regardless but this just makes it easier.

SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 13:04

Is there a draft of the bill yet?

A petition would have to be carefully worded based on exactly what is being proposed.

BabychamSocialist · 23/07/2017 13:04

Jellyfrizz

Yes, but someone said they didn't want to use unisex facilities because they might walk past a man who was coming out of the door. I mean, what?!

VestalVirgin · 23/07/2017 13:04

They don't commit violent crime at anything approaching the rate men do.

And even if they did, a woman has a fair chance fighting back against another woman who attacks her. Against a male? Not so much. No matter how that male identifies. Putting on lipstick doesn't take away his male musculature and bone structure.

Also, even if there were as many female rapists as male ones, female rapists could still not impregnate their female victims.

If you are for males in women's prisons, then you are for women being subjected to pregnancy by prison rape. That is what you are for, that is what you want to do to women, that is what you condone.

And don't you dare denying that. Don't you dare deny your vile misogny.

This is what you want, or you would not be in favour of males in women's spaces. Simple as that.

BabychamSocialist · 23/07/2017 13:05

Our local swimming baths has unisex changing rooms too! Gasp!

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 13:06

You stay put then Whisky Us feminists have more important things to discuss

Right.

Wording for a petition?

Which petition or many of them?

OP posts:
jellyfrizz · 23/07/2017 13:06

Oh Whisky. Did you miss all the posts talking about medical care, sports, STEM scholarships, rape crisis centres, difficulties for muslim women etc?

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:07

I don't think toilets will win is this at all.

Prisons, crime data, medical data (various data arguments), refuges and rape crisis services. Science versus societal constructs. Any of those but not toilets.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/07/2017 13:07

Genuine trans women are not the problem though. If someone thinks they have a ladybrain or whatever; good luck to them. But the proposed changes don't protect women from the fakers and the chancers and the predators. And they don't take account people's bodies: a 20 stone 6'6'' body dysmormpic man, who genuinely feels like a women but has a man's body, is still going to do a hell of a lot of damage in a contact sport.

SylviaPoe · 23/07/2017 13:07

Whisky, the law won't change anything for those toilets. They are already legal and in many places, certainly places I've worked and my kids' schools. It's not what the issue is.

The issue is about shared spaces, not single occupancy.

Whisky2014 · 23/07/2017 13:08

I don't see how medical care will change? Infanct anything from your list. It's all very dramatic

SerfTerf · 23/07/2017 13:08

ONE petition @AssignedMentalAtBirth

DameDeDoubtance · 23/07/2017 13:08

Women and girls need to have facilities that can only be used by the female sex. 98% of sexual violence is committed by males, ditto violence. Women and girls deserve the right to see female doctors and compete with their own sex. Women fought hard to secure all these rights and the government does not have the right to give them away.

Why do they feel that now is a time to give these rights away? Thousands of women and girls are raped and sexually assaulted, the figures are going up, not down. 3 women are murdered each week, is this really the right time to take away female safe spaces?

We have a problem with obesity, women are under represented in all sports. Is this really the time to take away a females right to compete with their own sex?

Why are we considering removing these hard won rights?