To still feel so fucked off with my parents?

[lastminuterush]

In many ways my parents were good; very loving and generous and supportive.

But there are various things that really stand out from my childhood and adolescence and I sometimes feel angry.

Like:

• clothes; we didn't lack money but I never had clothes. A few hand me downs from my brother. Some horrible stuff from the market. Occasionally I'd beg something as a birthday or Christmas present but often it was wrong - like one year I asked for jeans and I got them but they were more demim trousers with an elasticised waist and embroidery, so for much younger girls. It contributed in part to such bad bullying as I always had awful stuff.

• my dad and the camera. He used to 'stage' elaborate photographs - getting the whole family to stand somewhere stupid while he took a picture or getting you into stupid poses and then putting the photos up somewhere. He once barged in on me when I was trying to eat something and took a photo. Just made you feel self conscious and stupid. And I hate the fact that I hate most of our family photos as I remember feeling awkward and ridiculous.

• Sunday school. My brother and I were made to attend Sunday school twice a day every Sunday. This lasted until year 5 for me I think and year 7 for my brother. Then it was once a day. I think we finally rebelled completely in secondary. The people running it were completely barking mad but my dad used to chuckle in an indulgent way and seemed to find them charming

• food. Just couldn't ever have a snack without some huge row as my mum worried endlessly about me getting fat yet used to buy copious amounts of cakes and biscuits.

• my mum slagging me off to people, sometimes inventing stuff. Sometimes if I challenged her on it she'd do this silly high pitched laugh and claim it happened. Stuff like 'titter titter my DD once rang me in the middle of the night because she fell out with her friends at a sleepover'. This didn't happen! Other times she would agree it was fictitious but she was trying to make the other parent feel better because I was well behaved

• mother having a memory like an elephant. I got into a minor bit of trouble at school in year 1 - talking or something - and the teacher must have mentioned it to my grandmother at pickup and she told my mum. My mum was still talking about it when I was in secondary school.

• my mums rages. Not often but sometimes I remember her just losing it and screaming. It was frightening when I was little.

• the emphasis on academic achievement. They used to force me to do work after school and if I got things wrong they'd yell and scream; my dad would punch things in frustration. It made me feel awful.

• comparisons to other children; my mum would tell me how much better another little girl was at me for something.

I don't know. Sometimes I feel mad with them, then guilty.

(I don't want counselling; please don't suggest.)

Sounds like they were hugely insecure people who needed you to present a certain way to boost their fragile egos.

Why don't you want counciling? There are plenty of different types therapy or online therapy or books that would help. I'd suggest reading Alice Millers the drama of being a child.

I wish any grudges I had disappeared on their deaths, but they haven't

TH I think it makes it harder when the person has died - you can never confront them, and either have closure find out what pressures were working on them at the time (not that it makes anything right)

My mother and father both had very deprived childhoods and were the children of single mothers (a terrible stigma in those days). I think they thought that I was so much better off because no-one could throw "bastard" at me (which was true - I didn't have that particular cross to bear), and didn't notice how things like social isolation, having shite clothes etc, and seeing my siblings get preferential treatment affected me.

My inlaws use to send my partner to Sunday School when they didnt attend church so they could have a lie in. He suggested we do the same for our DD and i've said a clear no to that.

To me thats and incredibly selfish move especially once your kids are at school.

This may or may not help?
After my 21yr relationship finished, for a year I dated a woman who in her childhood was sexually abused along with her sisters by her father with her mum also taking part, she got them both put away.
She was very open about it and it helped me get my own childhood into perspective.
She helped me a lot and I will always be in her debt.

Well no, sending your child to Sunday school obviously isn't abusive.

My issues with that are:

• it was twice a day and so it wasn't like that sense of 'ah, done that, brilliant, relax and enjoy your Sunday' - it hung over you

• they didn't listen to us when we voiced concerns

• it led to bullying

• they weren't church goers

• the people running it were mad as a box of frogs and it gave us some very odd ideas

But I think people are fixating on that to give me a hard time now.

I'm finding this incredibly helpful, because it does assist in gaining some perspective.

What isnt helpful is for people to just say 'omg what a 100% shit childhood you had' because truly 100% shit childhoods must be extremely rare; for most people it's shades of grey, some good bits, some shit and a lot in between

For example I've only talked to a couple of friends in RL about the caning, and one was totally shocked and almost made me feel like I should disown my parents or sue them or something, which wasn't a helpful reaction. Although it seems barbaric now, corporal punishment was very normal in the 60s and 70s ; ok, caning was perhaps more at the extreme end but even so it's not helpful to view it out of context. Several decades ago it was probably considered lax parenting to not smack your child if they stepped out of line

I also wonder what aspects of present day parenting will be condemned by future generations; e.g. I Can imagine people genuinely feeling that their parents were neglectful and perhaps emotionally abusive for allowing access to so much technology, screen time and social media. im a teacher and a lot of children these days seem highly anxious, increased mental health issues etc and a lot of it is connected with the 24/7 access to internet, social media.... however it would be too simplistic to just blame the parents because I've no doubt most are doing their best against a backdrop of the way society currently operates

I'm not dismissing anyone's experiences (god knows there's enough I feel uncomfortable about in my own childhood) but I do think the posts on here which show a balanced view and the shades of grey rather than just black and white, are enormously helpful

OP also I can relate somewhat to the clothing thing but mostly that my mum didnt believe in the latest fashions ect..so it was hand me downs and clothes more suited for kids when I was 14 ect.. no make up or anything like that.

I dont view this as abusive as it wasnt done malicously but more to try and teach me there were more important things in life however it backfired because it led to bullying and weight gain.

I have talked it out with my mum and she apologised for not listening to me.

I don't mind it (much) with my dad as he's never cared about clothes but my mum did and I do feel like she possibly did it on purpose.

If you went to counselling, it would clarify things for you.

My parents were similar. I used to have the same mixed feelings and thoughts.

Trust me.

Thank you, I have, I haven't found it helpful but I'm glad you have.

Im not sure if you've answered this but-do you have kids yourself? All I can say is that you make a promise to yourself not to act like that with your own kids.

I had counselling (free on NHS) a few years ago due to not dealing very well with breaking up with an emotionally abusive partner and being anxious/depressed. It turned out I was actually very angry with the way my parents brought me up. Took some time but I got some resolution. Basically-it was sh*t but part of that was just the way it was back then and them making very stupid mistakes...plus being miserable themselves. But you have two choices-find a way to move on or let it eat you up.

Oh and op I was a child who was repeatedly sexualy abused by several peadophiles and tortured, had extreem cruel emotional abuse and medical abuse from my mother.

And I still think your parents sound cruel and abusive. I allways think imagining treating your children that way and see how ok that feels is a good test, I could forgive myself for getting kids clothes wrong or if they slate my for crappy food when they grow up or similar or occasionally loosing the plot and snapping but apologuising and trying better afterwards is one thing, doing so all the time as if ok is completely unacceptable. Don't discount your feelings op.

Oh and often counciling makes you feel worse before feeling better. It took me 2 & 1/2 years of truama therapy before I felt better. Lots of support groups and therapeutic reading first, online survivors forums that kind of thing.

I have some issues with my parents although not as bad and similarly, I struggle to contextualise them - I feel the need to sort of have confirmed that some of the things they did were awful, but at the same time some of the things they did were unusually good so I feel a bit lost and then it all comes back down to "what is wrong with me?" which is where I get stuck.

this in particular rang a bell with me

"What most troubles me about my parents is that looking back I can see that slowly and surely they isolated us both - me and my brother that is - from 'normal' interactions. The clothes, making us stand out and eliciting bullying, Sunday School ditto (I know this was normal for some children in an earlier era but this was the 90s. Incidentally my parents didn't go to church themselves and weren't believers - well, my dad certainly wasn't; I think my mum was on the fence about it all.) They made it difficult for us to have and to keep friends. Didn't like us socialising outside the home at all really. "

My situation was similar except unlike you, I am pretty sure they did not do it on purpose. In fact my mother in particular was genuinely very attracted to nice, normal, popular young people and pretty clearly wondered why I wasn't like that but was a twisted ugly crazy dork. I was furious with her for cutting off all access to confidence and normality, and then blatantly preferring people who were normally dressed, had access to normal popular culture, were loved and supported and accepted, and were relaxed and confident around people of all ages as a result.

In adulthood I've found I don't have innate social problems. With a bit of confidence and thought, I've found that I can make relationships of most kinds work. But it's really working against my early conditioning which was to expect the world to give me a kicking and to slink out of sight as much as possible to avoid humiliation.

Do you have extended family members who might help you contextualise all this? I think you may benefit from talking this through with someone close but removed, who can see it all from the inside but from a different perspective. I am very lucky to have cousins who can really help with this.

I wasn't trying to dismiss your suicide attempt, more the fact that you're still here, so it didn't actually work and from the perspective of another adult, that you weren't given some sort of therapy at that stage. I'm surprised that another adult in your life didn't intercept at some point, but I know that's often more luck than actuality.

I appreciate that your experience of counselling hasn't been good, but because this is still impacting on your life I do wonder if you couldn't find a trained (in child abuse) psychiatrist who could help you find a way to find to release the anger that is so obviously hurting you.

As a complete cynic I tried reiki not long after the friend's comment; I can't explain why, but the nightmares stopped and bit later on I was able to control and then stop the over eating. That feeling of never being good enough doesn't go unless you face it head on and I personally couldn't have got there without love from my OH and therapy. I read your posts and think you need and deserve some kindness and some love.

No, most extended family were once removed. My dad did have a sister but she has issues herself and relations with them and my cousins were strained. I last saw them at a funeral 3 years ago.

I wasn't trying to sound sharp Quick

However it didn't work because google didn't exist then and school libraries weren't stocked with 'how to kill yourself' books!

I think the situation between your dad and his sister probably speaks volumes about their upbringing as well then.

To put it crassly your parents sound like utter weirdos.

I don't know about abusive and I think it is too freely used on here but it seems like they behaved in a peculiar way to keep you in your 'place'.

I get that some people don't understand fashion but there is a big difference between not seeing the point in spending a fortune on designer labels (which it doesn't sound like you asked for ever) and dressing your teenager like some old nan. I suppose the shouting and banging around stopped you from having the confidence to stand up for yourself.

I'm sorry you were made to feel so shit that you tried to end your life but I'm pleased you didn't succeed.

I also understand why you feel counselling isn't for you, my advice is to either try and accept yourself for who you are now or work on improving what bothers you. I haven't seen you mention kids but if you have them already or plan too then be the mother to them that you would have liked to have had yourself.

I think your parents knew their behaviour wasn't on, a lot of what you say they did right seems like stuff to show the outside world how great they were e.g. Kids at Sunday school, holidays to Florida and these are the things that keep you confused about how rubbish at parenting they were. They may have been trying their best (I don't think they were) but frankly their best wasn't good enough.

OP I think many of MN are over sensitive to any criticism of parenting, because it makes them feel defensive about their own parenting.

Your mum was an alcoholic.
Your home life was so bad that both you and your brother tried to kill yourself when very young.
That does sound very bad.

You also suspect that you were dressed so purely because they wanted to isolate you. From what I have read, it is not unusual for families with an alcoholic parent to try and isolate their children from the outside world.
Your dad obviously has anger issues. Thumping a table because your 6 year old has got a sum wrong, is not okay.

This does not mean they did not love you. They probably did love you. But no, their parenting was not good enough.

It might be worth reading things aimed at adult children of alcoholic parents. I also found it useful reading Toxic Parents. I found just reading stuff and time, helped me to come to terms with my childhood.

Do you have children OP?

Op - I think this sounds horrendous. Continuous low level bullying/abuse by your parents, it obviously affected both you and your brother deeply if you both attempted suicide (why did this not raise any red flags with anyone? I think you were really let down).

Have you talked to your brother about it? Do you think it would help?

If you're still (understandably) angry I think you need to find a way to process it. You say that counselling hasn't worked (I have sympathy, it didn't for me either ). Perhaps it's worth exploring other options? I'm told CBT helps some people. Or a support group (the stately homes thread in here or a local one)?

What they did was pretty damaging, unfortunately you need to find a way to put it right so it doesn't continue its impact indefinitely.

Also children's mental health problems did not used to be taken seriously. Many people did not really think children could have real mental health problems. That is why probably no one really intervened.

Yes, I can relate to this. My mother used to cut the toes off the shoes I had grown out of and make me wear them in the school holidays! Wouldn't let me have any friends of my own, they had to be vetted by her. Lots of angry outbursts, used me as an excuse for her mistakes etc. I left home at 16 as she found out I had a (secret) boyfriend and threw my clothes onto the street and called me a whoare in front of the neighbours! I wasn't even sleeping with him!! Amazingly we do speak and I actually feel she's the one who lost out as my relationship with my kids couldn't be more different. I can't change how it was but can make sure I've learned from it.