To still feel so fucked off with my parents?

[lastminuterush]

In many ways my parents were good; very loving and generous and supportive.

But there are various things that really stand out from my childhood and adolescence and I sometimes feel angry.

Like:

• clothes; we didn't lack money but I never had clothes. A few hand me downs from my brother. Some horrible stuff from the market. Occasionally I'd beg something as a birthday or Christmas present but often it was wrong - like one year I asked for jeans and I got them but they were more demim trousers with an elasticised waist and embroidery, so for much younger girls. It contributed in part to such bad bullying as I always had awful stuff.

• my dad and the camera. He used to 'stage' elaborate photographs - getting the whole family to stand somewhere stupid while he took a picture or getting you into stupid poses and then putting the photos up somewhere. He once barged in on me when I was trying to eat something and took a photo. Just made you feel self conscious and stupid. And I hate the fact that I hate most of our family photos as I remember feeling awkward and ridiculous.

• Sunday school. My brother and I were made to attend Sunday school twice a day every Sunday. This lasted until year 5 for me I think and year 7 for my brother. Then it was once a day. I think we finally rebelled completely in secondary. The people running it were completely barking mad but my dad used to chuckle in an indulgent way and seemed to find them charming

• food. Just couldn't ever have a snack without some huge row as my mum worried endlessly about me getting fat yet used to buy copious amounts of cakes and biscuits.

• my mum slagging me off to people, sometimes inventing stuff. Sometimes if I challenged her on it she'd do this silly high pitched laugh and claim it happened. Stuff like 'titter titter my DD once rang me in the middle of the night because she fell out with her friends at a sleepover'. This didn't happen! Other times she would agree it was fictitious but she was trying to make the other parent feel better because I was well behaved

• mother having a memory like an elephant. I got into a minor bit of trouble at school in year 1 - talking or something - and the teacher must have mentioned it to my grandmother at pickup and she told my mum. My mum was still talking about it when I was in secondary school.

• my mums rages. Not often but sometimes I remember her just losing it and screaming. It was frightening when I was little.

• the emphasis on academic achievement. They used to force me to do work after school and if I got things wrong they'd yell and scream; my dad would punch things in frustration. It made me feel awful.

• comparisons to other children; my mum would tell me how much better another little girl was at me for something.

I don't know. Sometimes I feel mad with them, then guilty.

(I don't want counselling; please don't suggest.)

I've posted a similar thread cos it sparked off some things. Celebrate the shafts of light in your life OP iyswim!!

In some ways user I think they did do their best. But I tentatively can say it wasn't good enough.

My mother died in my adolescence. Heavy drinking got her. And everyone was hugely sympathetic and upset - for my dad!

A teenage girl losing her mum - never mind. A man losing his wife? God, how awful!

As you write about them in the past tense, is it correct to assume that they're dead ?

I can understand that you don't want therapy, it may open a Pandora's Box that you don't want to deal with, but a suicide attempt is quite a cry for help imo. I remember about 10 or so years ago chatting with a friend about a completely different subject, but she said, "you don't have to wait for someone to ask for forgiveness before you forgive them". For me, that was so profound, it helped me get over a shitty childhood. In my head I forgave them for being such awful parents; it allowed me to move on and create some better memories. That's not to say that they aren't still tiresome, selfish people, but I feel 'healed' and they no longer hurt me like they used to.

YANBU and they sound bloody awful. Sunday school TWICE on a Sunday for 5 years?! The clothes thing is so unfair. I think you have every right to be angry. Your Mum making up stuff is just nasty and weird.

I'm still angry many years later and with grown up DC of my own.

parents are entitled to a bit of privacy, sunday school facilitates that.

It wasn't a cry for help when I tried; I meant it. It's a myth that suicide attempts are cries for help actually. Many suicide attempts are attempts to end ones life.

Yes, I might think 'I forgive you' and mean it. But I suppose I don't as I'm still fucked off! Fucked off that my teenage years were so miserable.

I was brought up in an abusive household. Not the worst for as with all things, everything is relative and you are totally justified in your feelings. I think the reason you are affected less than some others is because you knew you were loved even though your parents were neglectful of your feelings and needs. I didn't have the knowledge of being loved apart from the odd snippet from a largely absent father. I had niceish clothes and nice presents. But the emotional cost of being their child, particularly my mother's daughter was immense.

My mother (and my brother) is still vile to me now. I have had years of therapy.

My brother was force fed blended food with a wooden spoon Oldraver because he decided for a brief time to go vegetarian and parents didn't agree. It was disgusting. I spent vast swathes of my life hiding in books in my bedroom away from my parents and my brother, who took out the physical abuse he suffered on me.

My daughter invariably will find something from her childhood, which will be to her dissatisfaction. It is part of moving away from being a child to an adult. As a child of an abusive parents, I am very attentive to her. When I see my mother sometimes treating her the same way as she treated me. I will not tolerate this and we are taking a break from her right now. If my dd ever talks to me about something she disliked in childhood, I will be open to discussion and criticism. That is what we do as parents and adults. Children, who have had the type of parenting Dh and I are aiming to give our child, I imagine are are in a minority. I hope we will succeed.

Op counselling and therapy are very different to talking. I'm not trying to persuade you so I shall say no more.

I do think they were abusive, OP. You were humiliated and isolated and subjected to their rages.

🙄Justdontgetit. My mother is exactly the same about my childhood. Right down to the father being dead. lastminute my father died when I had just turned 16. My mother loves to complain how difficult I was when he died. The fact she never thought to comfort me, not even once escapes her.

It sounds as if your mother was an alcoholic if she died from drinking at such a young age.
That could explain quite a bit of her and your dad's behaviour.

I recently found out my DF had untreated bio polar. It was a total shock but explained such a lot

Your parents were shit, whether they meant to be or not.

You don't want counselling? I lost patience with you at that point. Ok, don't have counselling. Wallow in the misery you had. Enjoy it.

Or, rethink. Go through the GP and get some counselling for free. Talking helps. Just being heard. If you find a counsellor is no good, get a different one.

Want a better life? Counselling is the way to go.

I think that finding a way to work out the feelings you have towards them would be immensely valuable. I had not the same lost as you - my parents were pretty brilliant on the whole - but there were some events that were just shit happens and I had a lot of feelings about it. It was very beneficial to me to work it out. I did the personal development course route, because I was uncomfortable with accessing counselling. Actually I had no idea how mad I was until halfway through one of those courses :)

With perspective, I've come to believe that it really doesn't matter how serious something was or not. What matters is the effect on you, and whether these unresolved issues are impacting on your life. It sounds like yours are. I would start exploring routes in which you could work things out - counselling is one way.

Lastminuterush- although some of the specifics of your childhood are different, the one theme I can really relate to is the sense of being socially isolated. I've thought a lot about this. The conclusion I've come to in my own mind is that it wasn't a deliberate plot by my parents to prevent me from going out, being social etc. From an adult perspective, I now believe both my parents were lacking enormously in self confidence. They were mistrustful of 'the world' in general, and this led to them making our family unit quite isolated... it was as if there was no need to look outwards. Not just in physical terms of getting out and going places, but I think they were mistrustful of other views and beliefs. This made them (my dad particularly) come across as very dogmatic. But those very fixed, dogmatic views were actually covering a deep lack of self confidence - I can see that now. The thing which perhaps shocks me most is that I just never told my parents anything that really mattered. When I was bullied at school I knew that if I confided in my parents, it would be problematic. Their gut reaction might be that it was somehow my 'fault' or 'weakness'. Even if they accepted that it wasnt, and that I was the victim, I sensed that they would be unhappy/ cross/unsettled and I felt responsible for protecting their feelings.

From an adult perspective I can see how damaging this is for a child. The one thing a child should be allowed to feel is that their parents are the stronger ones.

I'd be interested to know if anyone with a similar childhood has found counselling helpful? I have considered it, but I think like you, Lastminuterush, I've (perhaps unfairly!) thought of it as expensive talking. And also I feel I have thought through a lot of this in my own mind and unraveled some of the things which confused me. But on the other hand, we are all shaped by our early experiences and I would definitely consider counselling if it could help me further

Do you have children ? Something that has really helped me is giving my children the childhood I didn't have. I listen to them, let them have their own opinion, tell them I love them. If I make a mistake, I say sorry. My parents never said sorry, still don't say sorry now even if blatantly in the wrong, apparently there's no point as it doesn't change anything . I have a heightened awareness of my children's feelings as mine were never taken into consideration. My kids are such good kids, kind and confident. I am proud and think it's a reflection of how I am with them. And it proves to me that my parents were wrong as much as they wont admit it. This has helped me massively deal with the past.

Like others large parts of your posts resonate with me OP (example - my dad cut my hair until I was 16, it was never straight or even and I got horribly teased. Plus my "casual" clothes were always tracksuits, I was never allowed anything else And my mother had the same murderous rages - so I learnt as a child just to be compliant and never rock the boat.

As an adult I've come to realise that the main problem was that my parents had very fixed ideas about how they wanted their children to turn out,and didn't seem to take into account that their children were individuals or might have their own views about this. I also had the "achieve academically" at all odds - I did amazingly well academically, but I definitely had what we'd now consider to be mental health problems as my parents took no interest in whether I was actually happy or wanted to follow the course they'd decided on for me.

... however the big telling point is that I do pretty much the opposite with nearly every parenting decision with my own DC.

Chips, don't be so unpleasant.

I am 36. I have had counselling. I haven't found it at all very helpful. I suppose because as I say, I am aware of it. I can talk about it. I can even use it to good - I sometimes (in appropriate circumstances) use it as a basis to talk to young people about being kind, and might talk about my horrible skirt/coat and they have a little giggle but I then might get them to try and think what lies beyond someone who "looks different" and to be kind.

But, many counsellors find their way into counselling because they need it. Maybe there is one out there who can change my life. But at £40 a pop, I can't afford it! Yes, you get a couple of sessions free on the NHS but to be honest I just don't think it's effective.

MrsDV, she was an alcoholic. I do wonder, looking back, how much of her irritability and tendency to scream over mildly annoying but totally normal aspects of family life - things like banging doors - were due to hangovers.

Oh, and hygiene. My hair was washed once a week and a bath the same, when I was 11/12/13 - god, I probably stank

RedSky I totally relate to your post

We can't choose our DPs.
I was an only child, my DD always ran me down (even in my 30s, I bought a very nice car and all he had to sat was "that's far too good for you !").
My DM had OCD, so my interaction with her was always a nightmare growing up (hated me getting toys out and making a mess), the bath had to be left gleaming even then she would have to clean it again before she used it. In later life they moved 120 miles away, by that time if I went to visit/stay over I was banned from using the bath !
My DD would want to argue with me over the smallest thing then afterwards would say that he found my visits stressful !
Oh and I almost forgot, my DM would say to my DP, in front of me "you will die trying with him!"
When my DM died of cancer, I thought the 'walls' had come down and my DD and me made a connection, only lasted a few weeks, he moved (what was to become my step mum) in, within a few weeks and things went back to normal. Well our normal !

I can relate to that too RedSky

It also explains why relations between us disintegrated so much, as we got older.

Mummy with us it was 'the big spoon'. If we didnt eat all our dinner we would be threatened with the big spoon. Mostly it was Sunday Lunch and we would have to sit until it wa all gone so by the time the big spoon was employed it was stone cold. We would have our noses held closed and end up gagging. To this day I can't bear to eat with a large spoon. I always ask for tea spoon if I have a dessert out

I was amazed no one, not my Mum or GP's challenged this behaviour (I now realise lots of stuff behind this but mostly them kow-towing to my Step Dad as they felt gratefull he 'rescued' my Mum and took on her two kids). We were young, very vunerable and couldn't fight back. My Dad is now disabled by a stroke.. (and there is a sense of his loss of his power) but I often wonder hos it would be viewed if I treated him how we were.

He used to do silly physical things as well and once when he was sat next to me doing his dramatic movements (both parents medical attention seekers)...I sat wondering what would he do if I started to squeeze his knee till he was rolling about the floor wetting himself. It occured to me now he is the helpless vunerable one liek we were as children

OP, you are quite right to stand up to the posters trying to push counselling at you as the only way to resolve childhood issues. There is very little evidence base for the efficacy of counselling and what evidence there is suggests it may be actively unhelpful.

I think the fact your mother was an alcoholic puts a different complexion on things, as does the fact she is dead so you cannot resolve or work through any of this with her through a developing relationship - the mother/child dynamic is frozen at the time she died.

As Oscar Wilde said, children begin by loving their parents; after a time they judge them; rarely, if ever, do they forgive them. It is harder to find a route to forgiveness with someone who is dead, but I do think that you can work towards a level of understanding and acceptance, for your sake as much as theirs.

Have you told your parents how you feel? If you can have an adult to adult talk about how you felt as a child, you might feel better about it.

Lastminute what a difficult position you find yourself in, as you aren't able to move on and forge different relationships now in adulthood with your mum gone. It does sound like she had alcohol problems. It also sounds like your parents parented you in quite a rigid and old-fashioned way, perhaps not moving with the times- so the going to Sunday school, buying you A-line skirts/unfashionable clothing, washing hair once a week, it sounds like a more typical 70's upbringing (but this was in the 80s/90's) and I can imagine you were a target for bullies at your standard comp as I did know girls in similar positions, the dad often very rigid and angry, and the children were just targets and unable to blend in in the way that's really important for children of that age. It doesn't mean they didn't love you, it sounds like they very much did- but it's not an adequate upbringing and it also makes for a whole lot of bullying and stress that could have been avoided had they been more flexible and looked about to see what other families of a similar age children were doing (I'm guessing also not much socializing). Honestly, your story reminds me so much of a girl at my school I have wondered if you were her, but I am a good decade older than you so it can't be, but I recognize the parameters of the parenting so vividly.

I hope you can find peace through this. People telling you this isn't abusive isn't helpful, it is a rigid and difficult childhood to live through, no wonder it still plays on your mind.

So sorry, at first I missed the fact that you mother had died. You can still write a letter though, though she's not there anymore.

So much of what you wrote resonates with me, OP. Some things were different for me, like my dad hitting me instead of furniture, but the clothes sound very familiar.
I (and only I, not my siblings) was sent away to boarding school so I escaped a lot of it, but when I came back I remember my mother deliberately choosing really ugly old lady clothes for my sister to wear to her school disco. The poor thing looked awful and I shudder to think what it was like for her. At boarding school I only had 2 sets of uniform between the ages of 11 and 16 and very few non-uniform clothes- mostly my mother's cast-offs. It was humiliating and very uncomfortable (couldn't take my school jumper off ever, because my blouses all barely closed and it would have been indecent).
There's loads more, but what has really helped me to cope with them is the realisation that they just don't have what I want/need from them. Very few people are twats on purpose, and I know enough about their childhoods to know that they are both fairly damaged people. That isn't an excuse, but it helps me to understand a little.
What I can do is to distance myself from them and make sure that my children don't go through the same things as I did.