To think actually no my dd doesn't need to learn letters at 3

[Nicpem1982]

My dd is 3 in September, and mil was asking for present ideas this evening. The budget is silly so have asked her for a couple of small educational toys and some school shoes and remaineder into savings as don't want a house full of toys

Told her what we've bought mainly STEM based toys and games to which mil replied

"She needs to concentrate on letters from her birthday not just science and nature (my dd is a huge fan) she'll be behind if she can't read for reception"

I'm in no rush for my dd to read and write we encourage her interests (for the record she has fun toys to but she shows little interest in anything outside of the following

Nature hunts
Mud pie making
Playing on the park and generally being outside
Playing with her toys (mainly Lego, dinosaurs, board games, small world imaginative play)
Arts and crafts

For the record I have an excellent relationship with my mil but this has really irritated me, I don't want my dd forced into reading until she is ready the issue is my mil covers a large portion of our child care I'm now worried that she will start forcing her to try and learn to read and my dd will lose the love of books she has

Aibu to be irritated and think let my dd be herself at her own pace or should she be learning to read?

Sorry BEST universities...
Oh the irony

You're taking the right approach, OP. I say this as a teacher whose son has just finished his reception year.

DS had only just turned four when he started school in September and I really didn't push him with reading at all before he started. He recognised all the letters and numbers but I never sat him down and 'taught' them, he just picked it up a bit at a time while we played with educational toys, looked at books together and watched things like Numberjacks on TV. I'd count the steps as we walked up or down them, just little things like that daily add up but don't put kids off reading and writing.

I'd say if your child can recognise and write their own name, can hold a pencil well (so lots of drawing pictures to help with this) and is toilet trained, she'll be fine when she starts school. DS has whizzed through phonics this year and is 'exceeding' in his literacy skills now - far faster than his older brother who is probably more 'academic' but got put off phonics a bit by his nursery shoving it at them daily.

I've noticed the difference in the curriculum over the last few years though - much bigger focus on maths and literacy and far less focus on all the other stuff. So encouraging your DD in science, art, being outdoors and all the other stuff will really benefit her as school won't cover this as much as they used to do IME.

Just to add to my post, DS1 rates his skills as 'craft and Lego' so reading doesn't even figure. I have zero aspirations for him to go to Oxbridge if he decides that he wants to be a sculptor/architect/plumber - it's of no consequence! (I went to Oxford and HATED my degree, it was completely the wrong thing for me despite being 'academic').

Reading early is no indicator of future aptitude for any particular uni or career, it just means that it's something they find straightforward and it'll help them access a broad range of subjects (someone needs to tell this to my MIL who still thinks DH should have done English at uni because he was 'good at reading' )

OP, what a lovely grandmother your little girl has.
If I had a magic wand I would wish this loving involvement and care for every little neglected child across the planet.No matter how 'rich' or 'poor'.
How is your DH's reading and thus his entire level of education?
'Damaged'? (weeps).

However, I suspect there is a correlation between actually learning to read earlier and better educational outcomes

But "suspect" is not evidence. I've never found evidence that formal
learning to read before being developmentally ready helps long term outcomes. I have seen children struggle trying to unlearn bad habits and starting school put off by being forced.

Tearsinmyeyes post near the top of the thread is spot on in terms of consistency with evidence about children's learning at this stage.

This desire to have toddlers reading before they have reached the relevant developmental stage seems to be a UK thing. In most of Europe its done later with equally good or better outcomes.

Rather than push toddlers into early reading encouraging them to play exactly the same STEM type games described in the OP and then talking about the activities builds spatial, oral sequencing and language skills as well as foundational skills for maths and numeracy. Ditto having picture books to talk about rather than formal early reading books.

Frankly we have a much bigger problem with maths skills in this country but I rarely see people worry about this in the way they obsess about 3 yr olds parroting words they have learned by rote.

The education system in this country is completely focused on very narrow learning. If a child falls behind in an important area they will miss out on other learning whilst teachers try to get them through the "right" hoops at the right age. Deliberately avoiding educating your child in those basics and then putting them into a system that expects that, rather than continuing to educate in your own way is very stubborn behaviour. If you intend to put your child through school and the curriculum you ought to prepare them.

Would it help if you deflect her to other types of toys?
Initially children are encouraged to make marks and can add meaning to them later. There's lot of activities which help to strengthen little fingers so they're strong enough to form letters at a later date.
Pre-school probably has things like sand in trays and sticks and brushes the children can use to make patterns, chalks to use on pavement, play dough, squeezing water or paint out of bottles.

When they start reception, I think schools are quite happy if children can recognise the alphabet and they're own name. Being able to write them is a bonus. Also the PP who commented about names has a valid point. Schools will teach the sound rather than the name according to whichever phonics system they use. I've found that older people, myself included, would use BUH, CUH etc rather than bbb, ccc.

Hopefully you can diffuse the situation with your MIL and show her the benefits of children learning through play.

Wow lots of debate

My dd has full access to art supplies, writing materials and literacy games but doesn't show much interest past arts and crafts there's no deliberate push to STEM she just seems to gravitate towards these, when we're playing games with her we will read the instructions and discuss, also when we're out at our local nature reserve we have cards to help us identify what we find she has 100+ books on her book shelf that are read to her regularly.

My mil is suggesting flash cards and work books which is not acceptable to us at this point dd is at the moment 2 and we feel that is too young

Dr horrible - I don't think teaching dd to read IS preparing her for school. That will come but 2/3 is too young imo.

Preparation for school in my view is having the confidence to ask questions and build knowledge, to have a basic understanding of the world and the ability to speak to both peers and adults in a coherent way.

Peng - she's 3 in September she doesn't even start nursery until Jan 18 I really don't see the rush.

I know my mil thinks the absolute world of my dd and her hearts in the right place and in her mind she will be giving her (dd) a good start to school and she may well but not yet!

Peng - as I said in a previous posts if she shows a natural interest then we (dh and I) roll our sleeves up and do it with her I don't see the harm in that however on the flip side she shows little interest in the literacy stuff we have at the min so I don't want it thrust upon her with flash cards and work books

Miow - not seen those she has a wooden cog board and a gears gears gears set from learning resources I'll have a look at those as we have a magnetic surface in the front room so they'd be a good edition

What reception teachers really want children to know is how to do up their own coats and shoes .

My children learnt to read aged 5, 7, and 4 respectively. When they were ready. They're all in top sets now. The one who learnt to read latest is the one who is most likely to be found with his nose in a book (he is 12).

How many letters they can recognise at 2,3,4,5,6 years old is no indication of anything at all.

Jelly- she can dress herself and put a coat and shoes on (needs help with the zip though 😂)

I learnt to read at 3, I used to love going to the library and using up my book allowance every week, then making my mother read with me. It depends on the child I would expect mine to be able to read before primary school.
The education system in this country is dire. So will be giving my LOs all the boosts I can.

Sorry, I should be clear: I know there is no correlation between being 'taught' to read earlier and better educational outcomes. And I know it is true that imaginative play is exceptionally important to learning and child development. I am not for a moment suggesting limiting that. However, I suspect there is a correlation between actually learning to read earlier and better educational outcomes, if the child is so inclined. I would never suggest pushing a child into reading before school age, but I see no harm in introducing letters and seeing where that takes the child. If they are enthused and find it fun, there is no reason to stop them.

I agree with most of this. But would also point out oxbridge students for whom English isn't their first language as maybe a point to consider?

I would worry that MIL - no matter how well meaning - might frustrate your DC by trying to push words on her using flash cards and work books. And that if she picks up on even a small amount of disappointment from MIL if for some reason she doesn't pick it up as quickly as she would like her to (even if MIL tries very hard not to appear disappointed - I'm sure children can pick up on these things) this could knock her confidence and put her off being in a learning environment before she has even gotten in to one.

I agree with encouraging learning at home but you can practise what they learn in school when they come home... rather than trying to push it on her before school age.

Peng - yes of course we would and mirror some at home

But dd has to show interest before I'll even consider it and no workbooks!