to think that schoolchildren should not have to wear a sign saying they have 24hrs to get their uniform sorted?

[orlantina]

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/17/school-makes-pupils-wear-signs-if-uniform-doesnt-meet-standards

The idea being that by wearing a sign, it makes teachers aware that the pupil is aware of the issue and is going to get it sorted.

But I think that wearing a sign just also highlights issues and makes the pupils a potential target.

There are loads of reasons why a uniform might not be up to scratch in the morning. Not all of them are under the pupils' control.

I'm honestly just curious now as to how so many other countries achieve far better results than we do.

How there are schools so dire they are being closed down.

How children in other countries walk miles across treacherous landscape just to get to school.

All without uniforms or pedantic regulations.

Yet british kids need to be told what underwear to wear and what hairbands cab be worn and can't even take a blazer off in blistering heat in non airconditioned classrooms or somehow it's a free for all in the playground

Penggwb I am still waiting for a reason why teachers in the UK need these rules to be able to do their job when teachers in countries like the Netherlands, Germany, France, Denmark and so on do not...

You seem to be saying 'don't question schools and teachers, they know best'. Which goes to the very heart of the problem I have - unquestioning obedience is a very, very dangerous thing.

One more year of daft school shoe rules and then I'm free of it forever.
And dd can choose to wear boots if it's snowy, sandals when warm, laceup trainers to fit her orthotics as recommended by her physio, or quite possibly nothing that sensible, but at least we won't have the annual discussion over what, this year, constitutes a shoe 'resembling a trainer' or 'not sufficiently plain'.

Penggwn can you not see that schools with petty pointless rules make it harder on themselves? If all schools had clear policies, rooted in pragmatism and common sense, the majority of parents would have no problems following them. Yes, there would always be a disruptive element, because there are always people who don't give a shit about their children's education, but if you muddy the waters with rules about hair bands, patent leather and looking out of the window (which is another rule the Academy at the heart of this matter has put in place), you're going to get parents and children just turning off completely. Personally I'd move heaven and earth to home ed before sending my DDs to a school with petty and draconian policies, but not everyone has the financial and cultural capital to do that effectively. I'm not even sure I do.

If you want to get parents and children on board with the rules - which is a desirable state of affairs - then you need to make the rules as easy to engage with as they can be.

I dont get the fascination with school uniform anyway as most other countries dont seem to have the hang ups about uniform that we do and as far as I know, dont seem to have any issues with not having uniform but if they're going to be sticklers for rules my english teacher would have been utterly disappointed in me at age 13 if I had used a split infinitive like they have in their policy. Then again, its a long time since I was in school and maybe split infinitives are no longer a cardinal sin, like, um, wearing the wrong colour hairband or having shoes with the wrong degree of shinyness

All our students and staff already wear lanyards - it's a safeguarding thing.

An extra card/diff coloured strap to tell me X had already had a conversation about uniform would be brill, because I wouldn't need to challenge it.

Personally I couldn't give a stuff about uniform, but if you're going to have rules, there has to be consistency- perceived unfairness is something children hate.

So explain to me how schools in other countries manage jo-jo bow-inspired excessive toilet breaks? Seriously, it isn't rocket science for a teacher to realise which student are - pardon the expression - taking the piss.

jo-jo bow-inspired excessive toilet breaks?

I shouldn't laugh....

So now kids are kicking heads in with steel toe caps and spending hours adjusting bows.

But providing them with hockey sticks bunsen burners, acids, chairs and cutlery is ok.

You can't solve problems just by are lying to remove all foreseen opportunities. The problem isnt whether or not they can wear a bow it's the fact they are choosing to not pay attention..and that's something they would choose to do whether they were wearing the lady gaga bacon dress, an entire piercing parlour's stock of titanium or sat their stark naked.

The behaviour is what needs dealing with. The sun is still shining when you close the blinds...

Just by trying

Trends are forever developing though you can't just add rule after time after rule removing whatever people next home up with. People will switch off or be unable to keep up and give up trying even it becomes difficult to constantly comply with ever moving goal posts.

Just deal with the behaviour that's the problem.

It becomes difficult when people have to walk a fair way to school in no weather proof shoes and are pulled up at the gates befire they can change.

It becomes difficult when despite wearing the same make of shoe for three years someone suddenly decides there's something wrong with it.

It becomes a problem when your orthopaedic insoles don't fit regular shoes.

It becomes difficult when the shoes approved do not properly fit your child and someone woukd rather they couldn't run around at break because the type if shoe is more important than the fit comfort and function of said shoe...

The sooner we get rid of school uniforms the better.

Won't happen though.

Hear hear alec

Indeed. France, Germany, Holland...all seem to cope ok.

The nature of a standard uniform makes children want to rebel. To be different.

And then time is wasted on ensuring that uniform rules are enforced.

Oh - and the pupils I teach love their Jo Jo bows. Somehow it doesn't affect their learning.

I've taught in schools with no uniform and schools with uniform. A new headteacher tried to make the school a uniform school but the parents and children said no.

To my mind it is about focusing on the real problem and then dealing with it.
So: Fiddling with bow/endless loo breaks = disruptive behaviour = warning for first attempt, then detention.
Flashing reflected light off patent boots onto walls, people = disruptive behaviour - see above.
For kicking people's heads in with boots, throwing chairs and using flapjacks as weapons, stronger sanctions may be required.

But ultimately none of it is about uniform, all of it is about behaviour. And as long as a school has a strong policy on dealing with disruption, everyone applies it consistently and it is well communicated, you don't need endless petty uniform rules.

My mum was a teacher in the Netherlands before she retired. No uniforms. Somehow she never had a problem maintaining order in the classroom.

Hmm, 'I have 24 hours to sort out my uniform out' - if you are going to introduce controversial lanyards would you not at least get someone to proof read them first?

DS' school have uniform cards they keep in their blazer pocket, if a teacher asks about a uniform issue they show them the card, which I'm fine with as DS' school have pretty sensible uniform rules, I'd be ok with a lanyard there too. DD's school however go a bit over the top, for example they aren't allowed pretty hair things, which makes sense - Jo-jo bows are tacky as hell and should be saved for weekends anyway and a class full of kids playing with hair clips gets really annoying really quickly, but DD's rules also say only plain hair ties in the school colours are ok (and yes they uphold it, i sent her in with a thin plain elastic in not school colours once, i got a note home) so a lanyard system in her school could well be more noticeable than the uniform issue and would really annoy me.

Agree entirely with Giles that it's behaviour that's the issue. The hairband is irrelevant. Having rules about hairbands doesn't solve the actual problem.