to think that schoolchildren should not have to wear a sign saying they have 24hrs to get their uniform sorted?

[orlantina]

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/17/school-makes-pupils-wear-signs-if-uniform-doesnt-meet-standards

The idea being that by wearing a sign, it makes teachers aware that the pupil is aware of the issue and is going to get it sorted.

But I think that wearing a sign just also highlights issues and makes the pupils a potential target.

There are loads of reasons why a uniform might not be up to scratch in the morning. Not all of them are under the pupils' control.

I suspect it won't be long until those who want to use uniform infringement to create low level disruption catch on to the fact they can use lanyard infringement equally well; not wearing the lanyard, claiming to have lost it, claiming not to have been given one, wearing the lanyard incorrectly :o

"Miss, miss! Star has the wrong colour hairband, you have to give her a lanyard miss!"

"Star, where is your lanyard?"

"Ain't got one miss"

"Yes she has so got one! Mr Smith gave her one in tutor! Y'ave to wear the lanyard Staaaar!"

"Star did Mr Smith give you a lanyard"

"No miss"

"He did so! He did so give you one - Didn't he Philomenia, tell 'er!"

"be quiet Fredie"

"But miiisssss - she ain't wearing a lanyard!"

From the school website (quoted in the article): "Smart dress instills confidence and pride, together with demonstrating respect for the values that we uphold and therefore prepares students for life in the workplace."

Really? Is there any evidence that this is the case? And since when was making all the pupils wear the same thing deemed to be the same as "smart dress"? It's possible to dress smartly without every child looking identical.

It sounds to me more like an attempt to stamp out individuality. Conformity rules, eh? We wouldn't want children thinking for themselves.

I have a real problem with this sort of treatment. Children go to school to learn and the way I've seen teachers speak to children is appalling. Short and sharp, often no please or thank you. Schools going against medical advice. Just hoping I have seen the exception of the rule here.

Really? Is there any evidence that this is the case? And since when was making all the pupils wear the same thing deemed to be the same as "smart dress"? It's possible to dress smartly without every child looking identical

Oh the irony.

The uniform apparently means they are well behaved and hard working and respectful yet apparently without it they are kicking eachothers heads in

Funny how heads who have so much confidence in their teachers and in the kids and their school pride and how wonderful the whole ethos is won't actually put any faith in it and remove the uniform.

If the only thing stopping your school from decending into series 5 of OITNB my god are they in trouble

It's a lanyard, it's not as though the school is sticking an A3 sign on their back. It shows subsequent teachers that the pupil is already aware that their uniform does not meet the required standard, so every teacher all day does not waste their time speaking to students about uniform rather than you know, actually teaching the class. If you don't agree with a school's uniform policy, don't send your child to that school. The school ethos will have education, behaviour, appearance and many other things which attract parents to send their children there; it's not a pick and mix, you sign up for the full set.

Italian do you know what happens if you don't have every teacher challenging incorrect uniform?

The girls wear leggings under their school trousers, which they whip off as soon as they can. Kids carry trainers in their bag which they get changed into once they've passed the school gates. Ties become lost, as do blazers. Kids come in late to avoid the check. I know because I've seen it a billion times.

If you only have one point of uniform checking throughout the day, you might as well have none.

nobole

first sign of anarchy isn't it - girls wearing leggings and boys wearing trainers.

Coming in late to avoid the uniform check could be avoided by not having a uniform.

Girls could wear leggings - they are very comfortable and easy to move around in. Boys could wear trainers - ditto. Boys could wear leggings and girls could wear trainers, who cares? Let them for 6 months and then, once the initial hysteria of actually being free to choose what to wear has died down, everyone can just get on without any need for any of this daftness at all - the way they do in most of Europe.

The girls wear leggings under their school trousers, which they whip off as soon as they can. Kids carry trainers in their bag which they get changed into once they've passed the school gates. Ties become lost, as do blazers. Kids come in late to avoid the check. I know because I've seen it a billion times

Is there no part if you that wonders if perhaps far to much credit is given to cheap fabrics. If enough time and energy both at home and at school went on dealing with actual behaviour perhaps kids wouldn't be hiding in the toilets at break or yelling at eachotger on the bus littering streets with their cans of drink and junk food .

Perhaps they would be allowed in shops more than 2 at a time.

How do people come with over excited children in school trips for instance where they are no longer contained in a classroom. Is it anarchy or do they behave? If they behave and aren't wearing uniform have you changed how you are dealing with them in any way? Doesn't that prove how little the uniform actuallu does?

Cope

Coming in late to avoid the uniform check could be avoided by not having a uniform.

It could, but this school has a uniform and school uniforms are popular with many parents and pupils, so that argument is irrelevant to this discussion about enforcing uniform..

Oh the old chestnut about parents 'choosing' a school with a uniform, again.

Firstly, many areas will not have a single school available that doesn't have a uniform it obsesses about. Furthermore, the idea that parents always get their first (or even third) choice school is a nonsense - see the many threads started by parents distressed that they have been offered none of their choices.

It is perfectly legitimate for parents to question a school's uniform policy.

noble I disagree.

Why have an enormous discussion about how to force all children to wear tin hats to school without mentioning the elephant in the room - there is no good reason for wearing the tin hat in the first place?

Why not remove the root of the problem instead of tinkering with controlling the symptoms?

I used to teach. I was selected for an accelerated route to management which involved attending various conferences and presenting the case for implementing various whole school changes to achieve targets (raising boys achievement was a big buzz phrase / topic at that time).

I attended a particularly inspiring 3 day conference with the deputy head, and the take away was systemic change, not tinkering around the edges, adding extra layers of data gathering and little initiatives onto already unwieldy ways of doing things. On the Sunday evening as we travelled back from the conference we were both in agreement that we needed to try to sell this idea to the head at a scheduled meeting on Monday.

Monday morning rolled around, the head asked us for a "low hanging fruit" and the deputy immediately jumped in and suggested I implement a mentoring system for selected C/D borderline boys and recruit staff to mentor in break and lunch times, and take the lead on asking all departments for extra data at the start and end of every half term, and chasing that up, to see whether it worked.

No mention of the systemic changes that had raised achievement across the board as well as reducing the gap between girls and boys at GCSE in the schools we'd heard about at the conference. It was as if she hadn't been there. We might have been shot down, but we could at least have tried...

Its typical of some types of school management to think like this, I discovered - ignore the actual problem because its big. Fiddle around the edges to find a work around that makes the problem easier to live with, going to extraordinary lengths in some cases, while refusing to discuss solving the actual problem unless you want to be regarded as "rocking the boat" or "not a team player" etc.

School uniform is not just some irrelevant anachronism though. There are lots of positives to wearing a uniform and many parents and pupils prefer it. There have been billions of school uniform threads on here and the takeaway is that getting rid of uniform will not create some happy utopia, and it will create problems that are solved by uniform.

Parents don't usually pick a school (if they have a choice that is) based on one single thing. Compromises are usually made. A parent may disagree with the school homework policy, that does not mean that it is acceptable for them to allow their kid to not do homework, or to encourage their kid to just copy off their mates to get around the system. Parents can absolutely voice concerns through legitimate channels and these may or may not be acted on, however they should be aware that if they encourage their child to break the rules or tell them that the rules are shit and they don't care if they break them, then that will be to the detriment of their child's education in the long run.

. There have been billions of school uniform threads on here and the takeaway is that getting rid of uniform will not create some happy utopia, and it will create problems that are solved by uniform

Thing is though not that many people know any different and are basing the argument on what they see based on say a mufti day which is a novelty.

Those that went to non uniform schools have stated that there's mine of the percieved issues. No one cares they all just just wear regular clothes.

And what problems does it really solve. Does it solve them or just move them to different times and places.

It certainly doesn't solve bullying. It just removes one opening.thats not solving a problem.

Telling girls their skirts are too shirt for instance. Does nothing to educate the boys to not look at girls like that. Just means you don't see them looking.

Uniforms are also incredibly expensive. My Drs school shoes cost more than her nike trainers for instance.you can make an old faded pair if jeans look like you mean it. Old faded uniform though is just obviously old faded uniform that poor parents can't afford to replace.

And really hair cuts what's that all about.

Why is it ok to control someone's body. I could understand not allowing a kid who had fuck you shaved into their hair. But a shaved head does what exactly?

It's interesting that of the free schools that are opening, given all the freedoms they have to start from scratch, not many are abandoning uniform. Even School 21 which is doing things differently in so many ways has the usual blazer and tie.

Giles, I understand that you don't like uniforms, but that's irrelevant to schools which do have uniforms and therefore need to enforce them. You're not going to convince people that this school shouldn't use lanyards for uniform transgressions by arguing that it shouldn't have a uniform as that won't make any difference to the opinion of people who are in favour of uniforms.

This reminds me of one that was in the papers a month or two back - head teacher going round with a ruler checking hemlines on the 1st day of the spring term, and sending home a load of girls who had been so disrespectful as to grow enough in a term that their official school shop skirts were now too short.

Whether or not people agree or disagree with uniform personally I think the most disturbing part is just how far people will follow these rules and I do believe taht sometimes some schools play on the fact that parents will just blindly go along with things. As far as enforcing uniform goes there are still people who will justify not being allowed to wear a coat even on the say to school. Or on one thread driving around to make sure they make it home without removing blazers.
I know I won't change anyone's mind but I do hope that some of the "against" posts by several posters cab at least make 1 person stop and thing "hang on this school is taking it too far"

Surely at the very least some of the so called benefits are being taken away when schools go the "one supplier" route and suddenly instead of a pack of 3 polo shirts for a fiver one polo shirt costs several pounds cos of a logo

I'd agree that driving around the block looking for kids wearing coats is weird, but taking the card that a kid in trainers usually has to carry around to show teachers and putting it on a lanyard to save teachers asking all day to see it does not fit my definition of taking it too far.

When you buy stuff from supermarkets you can get it end if August.

When you have to get it from the school and your kid grows over the summer and/or it doesn't fit for September your already in trouble befire you got there

Giles DfE guidance says that schools have to bear in mind cost when picking uniform, and any school that puts an unreasonable burden on parents in those terms can be challenged on that basis.

Well that's where the trouble lies I think noble

Cos on threads about that plenty of people are still "rules is rules" and of course people are busy working and with family and trying to just get through their days so it remains unchallenged by enough people to make a difference