Charlie Gard 8

[cjt110]

New thread so that we can await this afternoon's hearing at 1400 (UK time)

Let's try to keep this one as sensible and measured as the past 7 threads have been.

Please note the MNHQ comment on thread number 7.

"Hi everyone,

..... We had to remove several parent-blaming posts, so we'd like to ask folk not to do this. We think we can all agree that this is a truly awful time for all involved and we just wouldn't wish it on anyone. If there's anything we could do with more of, it's support. We'll continue to remove reported posts that break TGs (if we've missed something, do feel free to let us know).

If we have to make too many deletions, we will need to look at removing the thread; which is the last thing we wish to do.

Thanks all"

How are they seeing this so differently? I find myself wondering if we are reading it wrong on here when I read this.

Mucky good!

but sirzy how is jf spose to reach a decision based on months old scans

an specialists come to that

Some CA on twitter pleased about the scan refusal as it shows they've 'got their parental rights back'.

thyr intrupting it all backwars ca

its c and c that wont do scans not gosh

It seems the scans would be essential to settle once and for all whether or not Charlie is brain damaged.
Last scans were apparently done months ago- with a child so ill and with the uncertainty over fits you'd expect regular EEGs.

It seems that everything GOSH presented before is now in doubt.

@JoshuaRozenberg
1m

Judge: any further tests need to be carried out before Monday's expert meeting.
This, she says, is standard practice for expert meetings. Lay people do not attend.
2m

The purpose of the clinicians meeting is to find out their expert opinions and how much they argue. #CharlieGard

@JoshuaRozenberg
2m

Butler-Cole: experts would probably want to meet Charlie's parents before they hold their meeting. Lay people don't normally attend these.

She believes the parents should be able to meet the docs but the clinicians should also be able to meet alone and discuss the science.

Butler-Cole: the guardian thinks Charlie's parents should not be present at the experts' meeting. But experts could meet parents afterwards.

Lawyer for Charlie's guardian also believes the parents should not attend the "experts meeting."

I am shocked to hear that Charlie's parents will not allow any scans. I recognise the difficulty of getting someone fully intubated into an MRI Scanner (can it even be done, there must be metal in the machinery?) but there is no way putting a tape measure around Charlie's head is an accurate way of measuring his skull.

Perhaps CA should be less willing to share his previous scans, then?

It seems that everything GOSH presented before is now in doubt

Really? I think I am getting completely confused now.

intepreting*

rabbitnothare,maybe because we are being level head and rational about it.

Judge: I plan to give my decision at the end of the hearing on 25 July.

1m

Armstrong on his feet now on the matter of Connie and Chris attending the clinicians meeting. #CharlieGard

I think the purpose of bringing Prof Hirano over is, sadly enough, to try to remove that last shred of hope from C & C so that they can find some sort of 'peace' in stopping treatment. I think Mr Justice wants to be able to tell them "See, we did what you wanted, it doesn't change things" because otherwise this will never be 'laid to rest' even after Charlie is gone. I think he wants to avoid continuing lawsuits for 'wrongful death', 'malpractice' or however it's done in the UK when someone thinks a person didn't receive the correct treatment.

I can see that side of it, however much I hate the fact that poor Charlie is being kept alive simply to satisfy his parent's needs for 'closure'.

5s

Judge says there's no suggestion that the parents will do anything wrong in the meeting. But

So verdict on the 25th July.

I think my feeds frozen!

AcrossthePond55, I think most of us agree on that one x

so test need to be one but he wont force the parents to do it

So, a fuller picture starts to emerge. Could it be that the parents have been refusing scans? In effect maintaining their belief that he is ok/he can see/reacts etc., and that GOSH don't know what they are taking about - because they don't, because they haven't been scanning/testing during the past months?

If this is the case then GOSH have played a blinder not bringing head measurements with them to court. I smelled a rat with this yesterday but perhaps it's how it is?! I'm astounded.

Given how disruptive the parents have been in the court at times I sadly don't think they should be in the meeting. I don't see how the doctors could expect to talk freely in their presence. And surely it isn't common for consultations between professionals to be attended by family members anyway?

Judge says his strong view that a 2 stage meeting would be a good idea. Parents could meet the clinicians and then docs could meet...

If the parents are going to argue he doesn't have brain damage they need to prove it by allowing the scans. If GOSH were refusing to scan there would be an uproar. I feel desperately sorry for them but allowing them to continue to reject anything that counters their argument is not healthy for them or the legal process.

On the other hand the judge could be playing a blinder. It is likely the American Dr will want to see latest scans etc next week and may insist upon them. I think the judge thinks it's possible he will come to GOSH see Charlie and discuss with the other doctors and realise how ill Charlie is and withdraw offer of treatment or revise his predictions. After all it appears from yesterday the american Dr has not seen all information regarding Charlie, possibly only the info filtered through the parents rose coloured glasses.

Judge: my strong view at the moment is two-stage meeting is a good idea. First: experts talking in technical language. Then address parents.

Armstrong says Connie Yates has a great command of the technical issues. She's immersed herself in it and knows as much as anyone about this Armstrong: Connie Yates has almost as much understanding of these technical issues as anyone in the UK.

mucky Are you ok to keep posting - I havent had any update since 9m ago on the sky news feed!