The thread where we meet to discuss the unfolding Trump administration catastrophe, but end up discussing adoptions from Russia

[illegitimateMortificadospawn]

If we can get our hands free to type from the constant facepalming, we should be able to post on this topic.

Continuation of the previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2968382-The-one-where-Trump-just-cant-stop-being-Trump

Pain. I share your fatigue.

It seems whatever emerges is normalised very quickly. Junior's meeting was about adoption and a casual thing and then there is overwhelming evidence that it was about Russian info and has a cast of thousands. Then we learn a key attendee has form for this type of espionage hacking. The President says anyone would have attended this meeting and in future anyone will. It's a slippery slope.

Sean Spicer still says the meeting was primarily about adoption. The WH press briefings have gone off camera without, it seems, a murmur of complaint.

Even if WaPo does have transcripts of Trump doing a deal with Russia, we will be told it's fine, ok, just politics. Everyone does it and Hillary was worse. The US will just continue to normalise the downgrading of democracy, and in UK our politicians will take comfort from that and continue to push for Brexit and a closer liaison with the US, Russia and the corporates.

I think the third senator saying no on motion to proceed means that the latest "let's just repeal it now and replace it at some point" plan is now sunk.

Persist, Gump.

That's the problem, gump, it's not actually trump that's the issue - it's the people who are willing to believe him (aided by the administration's lies, fox etc). Getting rid of trump won't stop the fact that despite his explicitly racist, misogynistic, disability attitudes, people voted for him. In fact, not despite it in some cases, but because of it.

This does now have a sense of inevitability about it. Whatever is turned up is irrelevant and is unlikely to change people's minds. How do we persuade people that tolerance, rule of law, democracy even, are things worth fighting for?

That is why The Aftermath is so important.

(!)

Jim Sciutto @jimsciutto
Just in: @SenFeinstein says #SpecialCounsel Mueller gave Senate Judiciary all-clear to interview Don Jr and Manafort in public session

@JohnJHarwood
As Senate health bill collapses, Trump takes credit for winning over most Republicans: "would have been 48-4. impressive by any standard"

The Associated Press @AP
BREAKING: Trump says Republicans should let Obamacare fail,' says, I'm not going to own it'

I see the faint shimmering of a Golden Road here - a sort of 'You weren't ready for me/good enough for me............'

Yes, we do need to have some idea of what the Aftermath would look like and it can't be back to business as usual. That's unrealistic and ignores that many people wanted to see change.

Otoh, if Mueller brings down only Trump and his family, Pence and his Koch brother friends will slot into their new roles and continue with the same agenda. Trump will be discarded as an aberration, best forgotten and look what we all said about him in 2016.

If Mueller brings down the government - senior GOP and Trump's WH team, the right wing will see it as a liberal coup. That is what they are being prepared for by the NRA, Fox, the right wing press and Trump's tweets. As Pain says this means there will always be a large noisy chunk of supporters who believe in Trump and his agenda.

You could say wait til 2018 but will the midterms be honest? We already know they are working on voter suppression tactics, and no-one in GOP seems keen to stop Russian support interference. It will be worse in 2020.

the Associated Press @AP**
BREAKING: Trump says Republicans should let Obamacare fail,' says, I'm not going to own it'

Politics before people. Lovely

Don't knock it too hard. He might want to ride off into the sunset with an 'I will return' echoing round the canyon walls............

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-jr-meeting-ikakly-kaveladze-russian-money-laundering-scheme-9986f528982a

The 8th person is alleged to be at the centre of a billion dollar money laundering scheme.

An October 2000 report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) accuses Kaveladze of being involved in a massive effort, over nearly 10 years, to launder $1.4 billion of Russian and Easter European money through U.S. banks.

Kaveladze dismissed as a 'witch hunt'. Sounds familiar.

I imagine Mr Mueller's team have all the relevant information.

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible.
7:01 pm · 8 Nov 2013

That was in 2013.

His tweets are little time machines, aren't they

'Time out of mind.' There's no holding him to what he said last week let alone in 2013.

'Apparently', 45 is scheduled to participate - this Saturday - in the commissioning of the USS Gerald Ford. That timing.....................

A good an example of this:

(((tedfrank))) @tedfrank
It's like Trump insulted an old gypsy woman who cursed him to live out his tweets.

Evening all. Just got finished on the last thread, and already this one is at 600 posts.

DH is asking when I am going to come and watch some TV with him. I said 5 minutes.

And something I was wondering from the Don Jr emails. As I understand it, the NYT were about to publish those emails, and Donnie beat them to it.

So how did NYT get the emails? And have they got more? How have they got them? There must be a leak somewhere, and not WH staffers, but someone from the campaign. I'd love to know what else they are sitting on, and how ling they have known about this.

Yeeesssss..........

That's been exercising me, too, Beryl.

Anyone who has the energy should go check this in one of the early stories, but IIRC it was mentioned that Kushner's lawyers found these (CC'd from Don Jr) while checking K's emails for meetings with Russians K forgot to declare and anything else that might need to be ... dealt with.

I can't remember if that was being hinted at as the route to the NYT.

As I said upthread a ways, Russia is playing a dark game here.

cozietoesie

I also mentioned upthread that this is basically this is the Russian intelligence service doing what it's meant to do.