Could of, would of and should of...

[pictish]

NO!

could have
would have
should have

It's past tense...it's stating what you could have done, would have done or should havedone. Could've, should've, would've are actual contractions of those terms...they're in the dictionary and everything!

It's not could'f, would'f or should'f is it?
'Of' makes no fucking sense! Stop using it!

I'm not generally one for the grammar pedantry but this one makes people look thick in a way that other common grammar mistakes don't imo.

Sorry...but I felt the need to express. Boot me about if you want.

I'm happy to see that this recurring Mumsnet topic is starting to move forward a bit. 5 years ago you got people correcting should/could/would of to should/could/would have and it was really annoying because no, that's not the same, people are searching for the contraction, not the separate word. And so then I would go on the thread and point this out thinking that peace would reign, and it would sort of, but only because everyone would gang up on me for being like the über-pedant. But it's important! People saying "would of" are not searching for "would have" and telling them to say that totally misses the point. So well done.

chemenger

I lived in Aberdeen a few years ago and some of the Doric is still there. More so in the shire than the city though. My lovely boss was from Fraserburgh and she said Quine, loon etc. Most teenagers in the city still said fit and fa when I was there. It is a shame it's dying out a bit though. I loved hearing the little bits I did when I was there.

"OK so that gives you the right to judge those whose education was even worse or who for whatever reason didn't pick up grammar as easily as you."

I think you're just drifting on an indignant wee cloud of your own imagining now. It's a specific pet peeve of mine not a political issue. I have university educated friends who write, "could of, should of, would of". It's a common but aggravating error.

Why do you care what I think then?

Perhaps it does matter in relation to own background, I have a degree/ MA and for me it feels wrong.

Toomuch - but in the context of this forum, it's people writing could of, should of. In most instances they are looking for could have, should have. I agree that when spoken it means could've, should've.

Some anecdata for you; my aforementioned DH has a first class degree from one of the best universities in the country, plus a masters, a lot of professional and academic awards for excellence and chartered status in his profession. He confuses brought and bought and thought pattern had no r.

Igotthemustardout I'm exactly the same !! That's why I keep any posts short and sweet

I don't care what you think Increasingly. I responded to your initial post which I disagreed with. You then chose to dream up a persona and background for me and snipe at me as though it were accurate. That's on you. I'm simply putting you right.

Increasingly
it isn't ridiculous at all. It is about education and people who have been less fortunate in lots of ways are far more likely to have poor written English

So you think you are doing 'less well educated people' a big favour by allowing them to continue to speak or write in ways which shows they are illiterate*

You are a prime example of the worst type of inverted snob. 'Keep the little people where they belong and don't try to help them become better'.

But in these days of social media and access to learning about anything it's possible for anyone to learn correct grammar by the click of a mouse.

It's attitudes like yours that led to the demise in teaching of grammar in schools, when kids were encouraged to be 'creative' and to hell with formal grammar and spelling, which has left a whole generation not being able to write or speak it correctly.

What's wrong with mentioning this?

And for your info I went to a school in the north in a deprived pit village, where dialect was spoken by most of the population. I had a standard education but more importantly I carried on teaching myself and learning.

Interesting view Polly. I don't want to keep the little people in their place at all however. I think we are in agreement there is a relationship with education however.

So you think you are doing 'less well educated people' a big favour by allowing them to continue to speak or write in ways which shows they are illiterate

No I don't. However, I don't think learning via social media will work as there are so many errors on there it is more likely to have the opposite effect. I don't think threads like this really educate tbh.

What do you think the solution is? Posting about it on MN isn't it.

I'm not brainstorming here. Just griping.
Unfurl.

And FWIW I didn't learn grammar at school, I went to primary school in the 80s when it was very unfashionable. I just happened to be one of the lucky ones who somehow learnt to write regardless of this.....

My literacy skills come from picking up the basics in primary school, then being a reader. I always read even if everything else was going to shit. That's how I learn...by reading. I learned that about myself when I attended an adult refresher course at college before I went on to do my HNC. It included a weekly afternoon in study skills which I had zero of. It was very useful to me.
My written communication has always been good because I read.

*of which I had zero...seeing as this is a grammar snipe thread.
I am one of the most enthusiastic campaigners for an edit facility on here. Sometimes you don't see it until you've posted it.

What do you think the solution is? Posting about it on MN isn't it.

Don't agree. Social media is the most powerful medium of all today. MN has over 4 million members.

Why don't you start another thread on 'Have you learned any grammar on the pedants' threads on MN'!

It's got to start somewhere. Parents are a huge influence in how their child picks up language- possibly THE most important. Hence the letters that came home from DD's sec school with 'grammar tips of the week'.

Every time my DD said 'gotten' I corrected her. I hate the way this has crept into everyday speech as if it's correct.

Not everyone writes for a living, or needs to be uber literate. But imo it's wrong to ignore not being able to write or speak grammatically in your mother tongue.

I do see a lot of errors on Social media and in a way you see more of people's writing than years ago so I think it is double edged.

Where I am entirely with you though is in respect to the importance and seriousness of it. Which is why I am uncomfortable when people post about how 'annoying' grammatical errors are. Particularly when I then start thinking about functional illiteracy.

Why don't you start another thread on 'Have you learned any grammar on the pedants' threads on MN'!

Don't this type of thread tend to preach to the already converted?

pictish
but in the context of this forum, it's people writing could of, should of. In most instances they are looking for could have, should have.

You're probably right, they probably would write it out rather than writing to contraction - but I still think it's worth pointing out that it's "'ve" that they are searching for in speech. I think if you say to someone "it's not would of, it's would have" then there's the danger that they think you're correcting the informality of the contraction. Whereas if you say "would've" it's clear that it's not the contraction that's the problem, it's that "of" is not a bloody contraction of "have"! But you actually pointed all that out in your OP so why am I still talking. See, these threads just bring out the detail obsessive in me.

I think social media is making things worse - and people also jump on bandwagons, eg the use of the word "curate" where in the past "select" or "choose" would have done.

Someone mentioned the me/myself thing but that's actually really old. My husband was reading a book from the 1930s and it was in there! And I think it's dialect too - Irish maybe?

I don't like "gift" as a verb - and I don't like people saying excited for or nervous for when they mean "about". I am pretty sure that the latter has grown because of social media. It wasn't around 5 years ago.

"look at he's little face".

Increasinglymiddleaged

Why do you care what I think then?

Perhaps it does matter in relation to own background, I have a degree/ MA and for me it feels wrong.

Is that a comma splice - or are you being informal?

Yes mulled, the 'myself' instead of me thing is often used in Ireland and, (I think), is a direct translation from the Irish language. I have to stop myself using it now that I live in England as I read, (on here I think), that it is seen as a bit pretentious in some parts of England ?

I've not RTFT but has anybody mentioned the 'trend' of using 'like' as filler word? It drives me bonkers.

Don't this type of thread tend to preach to the already converted?

*Doesn't

I don't think there's any excuse for bad English.
There is so much you can do to improve if you want to and it needn't cost a penny.
Being dyslexic with slow processing skills way before diagnosis and SENCO's in Schools, we had to do it ourselves.
My English isn't perfect but I have spent the past 40 or so years trying to improve it, little by little.
My problem more recently is spell check, I used to have to check with a dictionary and because it was long winded I tried my best to not have to look.
Now I have red lines over my wp all the time and I feel like I'm going backwards.
Anyway, lack of/poor education isn't an excuse, it may be the reason.