Charlie gard case thread 2

[Fancythat69]

The last thread is full, Not sure if another has been started.

Theres a CA rally at GOSH planned for tomorrow. What are these people on?

Thanks for the new thread. I get the feeling that GOSH are allowing this 'new information' to go to the courts, as if they agree with it and he is moved, that will be the decision made, as with if they make the decision to stay as it is, then it is out of their hands. They have the child's interest at heart but up to now to turn the machines off might have seemed heartless. With this new development, it will either be confirmed of they will have permission to take him elsewhere. Either way, they need support to allow them the next steps.

spiny from what I have picked up on mn the brain damage is at cellular level so wouldn't show on an MRI. So to all extents and purposes the MRI does look fine. But this is an old scan and one that the court did have access to despite the claims.

Can you imagine whose fault it will be if Charlie gets an infection? It won't be the parents' for backing GOSH into a corner so that they agree to every man and his dog coming will it? Oh no!

I thought with the scans they had shown signs of epileptic fit activity indicative of brain damage.

Grumpy - so does Connie et al dispute the degree of brain damage?

The EEGs show that he has seizures, but his body doesn't move when he has them.

What is the point of highlighting that the MRI scans didn't show anything?

They (Charlies army) are too stupid to know that the MRI wouldn't be expected to show anything. So they think GOSH are lying about brain damage.

Wasn't the scans old as well?

K probably a obvious answer but the blue landmarks except the Liverpool and Portsmouth lot..have people nicked photos from when they've been blue before?find it bit hard to believe they've gone blue due to a few requests..

Sorry yes it was the ECGs showed fits. It seems he can't move therefore have the fits.

Did the court report say Charlie was in pain?

The MRI reports have been seen by the courts, but that has passed by the CA huns. They think GOSH have hidden evidence

The scans being touted around as "evidence" by CA are 5 months old I believe. Never mind the fact his condition is degenerative and any recent scans will be totally different.

Redglitter, I thought it was over 2 mill now

Hard to tell how much when the mother's PayPal details are being given out for direct donations. It's horrible they're profiting from his illness.

I think they believe there isn't any/as much brain damage.

Talking of lighting up places the Royal Border Bridge in Berwick was lit up red and white for Bradley last night.

They don't know if he is in pain or not as he is unable to move or cry. It is therefore presumed that the interventions could cause pain and discomfort.

To reduce this to the absolute most basic level:

Either Charlie is so profoundly brain damaged that he can't even feel pain anymore, so this is cruelly futile.

Or he is not so profoundly brain damage, and thus does still feel the pain, but cannot in anyway communicate this, which is painfully cruel.

I, too, am praying for him to reach the end of his prolonged suffering.

Did the court report say Charlie was in pain?

"Pain

113. No one can be certain whether or not Charlie feels pain. Certainly, the view of his parents is that he is reactive to things that he does not like such as a heel prick or having his nose suctioned. Professor A's view was that it is possible that Charlie can feel pain, but it is not demonstrated. Certainly, as he is undergoing procedures that would cause pain to other people, he might feel pain. She said that he has a sore area on his neck where he has tape on his face. He undergoes suctioning and other invasive treatments. She also expressed her opinion that if Charlie cannot express feelings of pain then this would be an indication of the apparent severity of the damage to his brain.

114. When cross examined by Ms. Butler-Cole for Charlie's Guardian, Professor A said that Charlie is likely to have the conscious experience of pain. Professor A expressed the important need to weigh up the potential benefit of the smallest of chances (her views being that there were no chances) against the continued pain of intensive care, ventilator support and so forth. She said that it was her view and the view of other members of the team that Charlie is suffering and that that outweighs the tiny theoretical chance there may be of effective treatment. She said that she did not regard his pain of being of a low level of suffering, but something more significant. "

www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html&query

This is all getting way out of control. I'm surprised the pastor was allowed in. I think Charlie's parents are so far in denial they can't get out but they really need to be pulled back to reality and let their little boy go with as much dignity as he can and soon.

As hard as it it to think Charlie is really already gone. He is only being kept in some semblance of life by the extraordinary efforts of the doctors and nurses at GOSH

I also feel incredibly sorry for the other parents and children in that ICU with the media circus Connie and Chris have bought down on the hospital. I hope the judge rules on an immediate withdrawal of treatment and that the GOSH team are able to implement this is a calm and safe way.

Thanks for your replies. But as his mother does not believe he is in pain does that mean she is contradicting the medical team in this? Or have they just left open the possibility that he might be in pain ( but couldn't communicate it).

Can we link the previous court judgment here (as it is a public document)? It is definitely worth reading for anyone who hasn't already done so, as it explains Charlie's medical condition and the proposed treatment really well. It also looks at the question of whether the proposed treatment would cross the blood/brain barrier and what this means (I think this is the point to which the "new evidence" relates).
The really sad thing is that this judgment was made in April, and Charlie's condition must have declined even further since then.

www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/gosh-v-yates-and-gard-20170411-1.pdf
(The judgment I just referred to.)

Thank you Music. So over the issue of pain Connie is directly at odds with the medical professionals.
That's very difficult. It would totally alter your thinking.

Poor charlie look so, so poorly in those latest photos.