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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was this a cheeky thing to ask?

163 replies

gardendispute · 06/07/2017 14:39

I have namechanged for this as it is potentially outing.
I own a property with a small mortgage which my dsis lives in, she has lived there for approximately five years. Dsis pays just enough rent to cover the mortgage and costs such as buildings insurance, which is around half of the amount that it would fetch on the open rental market. This situation came about as we were due to move out when dsis needed somewhere to live, so we held of renting or selling it and she moved in. This is a family sized home and dsis lives there by herself.

The aibu is that i have asked dsis if i would be able to use the large garden on the house for my baby dc's birthday party as it has large patio doors leading from the kitchen and a decking area, our own garden is currently in the process of being done up. It would be a small family party with no small children from outside of the family, so no chance of her possessions being ruined. I asked her as a favour as i am doing her a massive favour by letting her live there, her response was that no you can't as i dont want people walking on my grass, technically its not even her grass!
Is she being unreasonable or should i be treating her like any other tenant, even though she is my sister? Am i expecting too much from her and being cheeky? I need an outsiders perspective on this please! I am prepared to accept that i may be being unreasonable.

OP posts:
lanouvelleheloise · 06/07/2017 16:20

YADNBU. She is very lucky to be getting so much support - effectively, you are subsidizing her because you would be making twice as much money on the property if you had a tenant at market rate. So you're sacrificing income to help her out, which is hurting your finances and a very loving thing to do. The very least she can do is to bend a little back.I think it's absolutely selfish and outrageous that she's not willing to do one small thing to help you out, when you've done so much for her. She's taking the piss!

AmysTiara · 06/07/2017 16:22

YANBU she's being mean.

GahBuggerit · 06/07/2017 16:25

"Would you leave Gah alone now? It's perfectly correct to say that op has indeed lost (quite a lot of) potential rental income by subsiding her sister but the sister isn't responsible for that, as op has apparently done it without any coercion.
Sister is still a cow, though..."

Thanks Flogging, and agree sister is being a boot!!

DaphneBlake101 · 06/07/2017 16:30

Since only the interest portion of the mortgage is deductible for tax purposes, she's not just getting a reduced rent - you're also having to pay tax on the rent you receive that covers any capital portion of your mortgage. If you're declaring this income stream, it's actually costing you for her to be in the property.

InvisibleKittenAttack · 06/07/2017 16:35

YANBU actually - you've haven't asked her as a tenant, you've asked her as a sister for whom you've done a few favours, would she mind if you held a family party at her house.

The fact that you are her landlord confuses matters, even if it was someone else she rented from and you had done other things to help out your sister that wasn't related to the house, then it still would be a bit off to refuse to have the family do at her house when you have done a lot for her. But yes, it's 'her grass' as she rents it. That she won't have a family get together on 'her grass' is a bit crap.

I would think carefully if this is working for you long term to rent to her. You are losing money each month and it's obviously harder for you to have a professional mind set as it's your sister, not a 'proper tenant'.

WillRikersExtraNipple · 06/07/2017 16:39

But it's still not an act of charity to let your sister live there

That is precisely what it is.

silkpyjamasallday · 06/07/2017 16:39

Renting from family can raise a lot of issues, I rent a house from my parents that they bought when I was pregnant, if for any reason they wanted to use our house rather than theirs I would let them without thinking. I think she is being pretty mean in not allowing her niece to have a birthday party in her garden but she must have a reason. Have you been to the property recently OP? You say she comes to you for Sunday lunch but doesn't reciprocate Could it be that she has over the years got it into a right state in terms of cleanliness and disrepair that she wouldn't want any guests? Or she is subletting/has lodgers that you don't know about as it is a family sized home?

Thiscantreallybehappening · 06/07/2017 16:42

YANBU - If your sister was paying you what you would get on the open rental market then I could see her point (sort of) but you are doing her a massive favour. In addition to that it is her niece/nephew's party so she comes across as very unreasonable.

She might not want you to hold the party in the garden but do you want to continue losing rental money on the house. You have let her live there for a reduced rent because she is your sister. It is a pity she doesn't seem to appreciate that and want to help you out.

Assburgers · 06/07/2017 16:44

I think the problem here is you each believe you're doing the other a favour, and are each disappointed when you don't get acknowledgement.

You think you're doing her a favour by renting a house to her at less than you could rent it to someone else.

She thinks she's doing you a favour by (presumably) paying her rent on time & being a good tenant, not asking too much of you.

Although you could charge more for the house, she lives on her own, and doesn't actually need the extra room, so to her it probably isn't worth any more than what she's paying. She could likely get a smaller place for the same money.

You asking to borrow the garden is reminding her that it is actually your house, and you still view it as such. I bet if you didn't actually own the house she'd have no problem letting you use the garden.

One thing, though: you say you invite her over & she never invites you back? Any chance the house is now a bit of a shithole & she's embarrassed?

steppemum · 06/07/2017 16:44

to me it isn't the rent per se, it is that the OP has been doing her sister a favour by renting her the house at a good rate.

This is a favour. It is a family favour, loking after your sister, helping her out etc.
The sister should reciprocate, do a favour for her sister help out etc.

That is why she is being unreasonable.

send her a text tell her you are disappointed. You have been doing her a favour for 5 years to help her out, and the one time you ask a return favour she says no. Don't leave it, regardless of where the party is held, for your relationship's sake your need to tell her how let down you feel after all the help you have given her.

Thiscantreallybehappening · 06/07/2017 16:44

OP have you told her how you feel and reminded her that is it your house and you are in fact losing quite a lot of income by letting her live there at a reduced rent?

Madasahattersteaparty1749 · 06/07/2017 16:45

Maybe she doesn't like ANYONE in her space. I wouldn't be comfortable with hosting a kids party at home we always book halls. I'm happy with 1 or 2 friends but a houseful would stress me out.

fruitbrewhaha · 06/07/2017 16:47

Not cheeky at all.
Even if the house wasn't your etc. Your garden is uninhabitable, please could we have the do at yours instead, is a perfectly reasonable request to a close family member.

BewareOfDragons · 06/07/2017 16:52

Your sister sounds selfish and entitled at your expense based on OP and updates.

Frankly, I'd double her rent to market rate, or 10% shy of to acknowledge she's been a good tenant. Or give her notice and tell her you want market rent now that you've been made fully aware that she doesn't give a shit about you, just what she can get out of you.

TatianaLarina · 06/07/2017 16:56

My sister could borrow my lawn for a party anytime and she doesn't even own my house.

FrancisCrawford · 06/07/2017 16:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sugarpiehoneyeye · 06/07/2017 17:17

She's being selfish, Personally, I think you've been too soft with her.
Time to up the rent.

Checkingusername · 06/07/2017 17:30

Tell your DSIS to stop being an ungrateful prick & let you use the garden.

If she still refuses, then tell her to find somewhere else to live, my opinion?? I think she's ridiculously cheeky for not saying yes!

You are family, you are family, you do NOT treat her like any other tenant, it's still YOUR house whether she pays rent or not

Katedotness1963 · 06/07/2017 17:36

Not cheeky to ask, and not really cheeky to say no. That said, I'd be resentful of the potential income I was missing out on for the sake of a family member who couldn't do me a small favour. Her rent would be going up, she's had five years of low rent to save for a deposit of her own, time to make a bit extra to treat yourself and your family. Kids are expensive!

JessieMcJessie · 06/07/2017 17:36

When you agreed that your sister could stay in the house and pay lower than market rent, did both you and your DH (who is, I think, the joint owner?) agree that you were comfortable with losing half of the potential rental income? You must be extremely financially comfortable to have been able to make such a decision. Perhaps explain to her that it's the equivalent of you withdrawing a few hundred quid in cash every month and flushing it straight down the toilet. I'd be asking her to move on.

QuiteLikely5 · 06/07/2017 17:38

Wills Niple - serious question

Are you Katie Hopkins?

No offence intended

RaspberryOverloadsOnIcepops · 06/07/2017 17:43

Interest rates are going to go up soon, you need to start increasing her rent. As you have a legal tenancy agreement you will limited by how much you can do so. I suggest you start now before renting out this house to your dsis starts costing you money!!!

I agree with the previous poster here. You really need to take a good look at the financial implications of this agreement you ahve.

And if you have a proper agreement, do you have any inspections? for wear and tear, etc?

Regardless of the ll/tenant side of the issue, she's not being very nice as a sister as it sounds like she takes and doesn't give.

Yoshi1701 · 06/07/2017 17:48

YABVU - Just because you've been nice enough to be kind and do her a favour doesn't mean you own her now. She's a tenant who pays rent and has every right to say no. It's your problem if you don't charge enough rent and I highly doubt you could double the rent in retaliation either.

Madwoman5 · 06/07/2017 17:56

She won't accommodate her nieces party? Nice.
Time for you to give her notice. Your rental is a business is it not?

dustarr73 · 06/07/2017 18:04

It's a mutually beneficial arrangement,why ruin it over a party.

If you up the rent now,you're being petty and childish, because you couldn't get your own way.

You don't own your sister just because she gets cheaper rent off you.Shes still entitled to quiet time and peace.

And if it bothers you that much op about your sister coming over stop inviting her.And yabu.