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Original poster

Charlie Gard case

999 replies

LovelyBath77 · 06/07/2017 09:41

AIBU to feel the drama over this poor little boy is not helpful? I read the Pope and Donald Trump were suggesting they help- when several courts have agreed it is in his best interests to let the little boy die with dignity. I feel sorry for him as he may be in pain and it is unfair to add further to false hope for the parents as well. I also feel that many, many people has awful situations where babies die, sadly, for example stillbirths and other cases which are just un-heard and un-noticed and people have to deal with it, so why is there such a huge focus here.

OP posts:
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WhiteCat1704 · 07/07/2017 21:58

"BoreOfWhabylon

The judge sqid this at the end of his original judgement

I end with this procedural note: I have already expressed the opinion that I believe that it would, in all cases like this, be helpful for there to be some form of Issues Resolution Hearing or other form of mediation where the parties can have confidential conversations to see what common ground can be reached between them. I believe that that type of hearing, be it Judge led or some other form of private mediation, would have led to a greater understanding between the parents and the clinical team in this case. I am not saying that it would necessarily have led to a resolution, but I think in many such cases it would and I would like to think that in future cases like this such attempts can be made.

Couldn't agree more."

I couldn't agree more too!
The hospital should have never taken parents to court over this. Everything should have been done to reach an agreement. Somebody has been very arrogant, probably not doctors/nurses as I doubt they make decisions re courts..

What really angers me is that if they gave Charlie the treatment the parents raised the money for in April this case would have probably been over be now!

muckypup73 · 07/07/2017 22:00

WhiteCat1704, perhaps if the parents had not fought everyone it would be over now too,its a double edges sword, dont just blame Gosh

WhiteCat1704 · 07/07/2017 22:05

Parents want their son to live and were given hope..why would they not fight for their sons life?

Hospital should have had a better understating and more bloody empathy. They were more focused on getting their way than exploring all the options WITH the parents not AGAINST them.

Charlie suffers as a result.

totallyliterally · 07/07/2017 22:06

@WhiteCat1704 what the treatment that the different US doctor then said wouldn't actually work?

Why would you put a child through that treatment and trauma for something that wouldn't work?

53rdWay · 07/07/2017 22:07

We don't know what discussions the hospital had with Charlie's parents. They deal with desperately ill children all the time and very, very few cases end up with parents and doctors so far apart that it ends up in court. Not really fair to assume they just lack empathy.

totallyliterally · 07/07/2017 22:08

And again @WhiteCat1704 you can only fight and have hope of things that might work.

Not things that will cause harm, trauma and significant pain and suffering for no improvement. The US doctor said (have you read the court papers?) he wouldn't give the treatment then as he didn't know how sick He was as he hadn't been told all the facts.

RMC123 · 07/07/2017 22:10

*Hospital should have had a better understating and more bloody empathy. They were more focused on getting their way than exploring all the options WITH the parents not AGAINST them.

Charlie suffers as a result*

They are not focused on 'getting their way'. They are focused on doing the best for their patient. That is Charlie not the parents, how ever sad that may be.
Charlie is not suffering as a result of GOSH's actions or the care they have given and continue to give. He suffers because his parents have been given false hope and are too far in understandable denial to turn off the machines and let him go.

228agreenend · 07/07/2017 22:12

i think GOSH have supported the options. Basically, there is no option. There is no treatment for him. The American treatment is experimental. It's not proven and hasn't been tested on humans.

Charlie is still getting continuous round-the-clock care from GOSH.

RMC123 · 07/07/2017 22:14

It's not proven and hasn't been tested on humans
Hasn't even been tested on mice!

Lelloteddy · 07/07/2017 22:17

Whitecat the experimental untested treatment was no more in Charlie's best interests in April than it is now.

And that's what people seem to have lost sight of. This is a decision based on the best interests of the child. Not the parents, not the doctors and certainly not of the baying mob on social media.

What happens if this untested medication causes Charlie to have a severe anaplacactic reaction? That causes him to have horrific, uncontrolled seizures or makes him bleed catastrophically? Is that a risk worth taking? A traumatic and distressing death? Will this all be worth it then?

GabsAlot · 07/07/2017 22:17

see what happens when people/media give false hopu gt stupid posts lik let them try

the us doctor stated he dint know how ill charlie was when he first offered he know says it wont work

Quartz2208 · 07/07/2017 22:18

Because it's a false hope, there is a quote that says hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torture of man.

It sums up perfectly this traumatic situation, the US doctor gave them hope when n reality there is none. In effect they are saying they can help him so the terminal stage he is in now can be prolonged and they can maybe stop / slow down the cell dying process

They can't however recreate the cells,reverse the damage already done. GOSH took it to the ethics committee about the treatment but the damage is too severe. The option Connie Yates wants became impossible a long time ago.

MumIsRunningAMarathon · 07/07/2017 22:18

whitecat how do you mean, 'this would be over by now'?

Do you mean the treatment given.... no significant change.....life support withdrawn?

user1499282478 · 07/07/2017 22:18

In my opinion Charlie should receive the Damn treatment I've witnessed 10 babies take their last breath while my son was in intensive care and then when I went for a coffee I witnessed a child be pronounced dead from cot death. These kids never had a chance but Charlie does . I'm proud to stand as one of Charlie's army

DarthMaiden · 07/07/2017 22:18

@WhiteCat1704

I really don't know where to start with your post.

GOSH have always put Charlie's best interests first.

As for suffering, your post suggests you believe he is suffering because of a lack of treatment.

Many medical experts have argued the reverse.

The courts have accepted this based on detailed evidence.

You think GOSH should "have better understanding and more empathy".

You think that the medical experts in charge of his care are doing anything other than putting Charlie first?

Honestly I'm starting to struggle with being civil in response to posts like yours.

MumIsRunningAMarathon · 07/07/2017 22:20

user Charlie has a chance of what?

This treatment won't see him off life support..... even if it makes a difference to his condition.... he won't ever breath alone or eat/drink. He will be in the same position he's in now

nina2b · 07/07/2017 22:25

Medical staff are amazing, anyway but the GOSH staff have to work with this circus going on around them. Yet despite all this, they strive to do the best for all their young patients. They are heroic, frankly.

FastAbsorbingCake · 07/07/2017 22:27

Thanks @unweavedrainbow. I was pretty sure of that but wanted confirmation. I know they can issue permission for single use (I can't remember the correct name) for teams to use a drug on the market for a unapproved indication. But I believe they have to show some evidence to justify using the drug, and as Charlie's condition is so rare they just can't do that.

And of course the ethical horror that would be using this poor baby as a lab rat. God knows what could happen.…Northwick Park drug trial anyone???

I feel huge empathy for the family but as I've said before in a generous turn of mind the parents have been driven delusional by grief.

Lelloteddy · 07/07/2017 22:28

A chance of what? Dying a traumatic death because of a reaction to some untested quackery from the States? If he's opening his eyes spontaneously, sucking a dummy and eating a normal diet ( just some of the claims made by the 'army', where are the video clips/photos of that? This is a desperately ill little boy whose inevitable death is being delayed because of charlatans and prolife zealots.

DarthMaiden · 07/07/2017 22:30

And now we have "users" on the thread.

There are lots of anecdotal cases people can cite as "miracles", where science was proved "wrong".

What is lacking is the very sad follow up of those cases where the quality of life for the patient is often intolerable.

Studies on sensory deprivation have shown how awful it is to be deprived of sight, hearing, movement etc. Putting "normal" adults into sensory deprivation tanks has had many people screaming to be realised within minutes, not hours or months.

GabsAlot · 07/07/2017 22:34

user how ar their cases the same an u an your army should b ashamed threatning doctors

BoreOfWhabylon · 07/07/2017 22:45

WhiteCat1704

I'm pleased you agree with the Judge's statement I posted.

I think we might be interpreting it differently however, because I'm afraid I don't agree with any of your subsequent statements.

To avoid any further misunderstanding: I think that GOSH have absolutely focussed on doing everything in Charlie's best interests. I cannot understand why you would think they lack empathy.

I think that the parents may think that they are acting in their son's best interests but that they are wrong

NannyOggsKnickers · 07/07/2017 22:53

I agree that GOSH seem to be the only people considering Charlie (as he really is). It is a shame that the ignorant seek to vilify the people who have been looking after him for so long. I doubt GOSH want to be in this position. But they have to advocate for what is best for Charlie.

DailyMailReadersAreThick · 07/07/2017 22:57

Just ignore the "users." You can't argue intelligently with people who aren't intelligent enough to understand fact.

alcibiades · 07/07/2017 23:04

In the most recent photo of Charlie, he does look very ill indeed. He's obviously swollen, presumably because his kidneys are failing. I doubt he's looking "chunky" because he needs to go on a diet (as I think has been said on the FB page).

But that made me think: when was the last time Charlie was photographed in his parents' arms? Would there be a medical reason for that - that he could only be in a hospital bed?