to not know how to explain transgender child in DD's class

[Peaches44]

I'm sorry if this comes across offensive but I am incredibly naive when it comes to these kinds of issues.

DD has a boy in her class, they are in reception year. At the start of the year she asked if the DC was a boy or girl and I could only answer as being not sure. The mother is very quiet so I hadn't heard her refer to the child as a he or she. The name is more 'boy' but could possibly be a girls also, the child wears a mixture of girls and boys uniforms and on non-school uniform days they wear girls clothes.

DD now knows he is a boy, but he is apparently allowed in the girls toilets and DD at 4 doesn't understand why, she also said a few other boys see this boy able to go in the girls and the boys follow.

She has asked a few times why he does tis etc. and I don't know the right answer, they are likely to be in the same school year for the whole of primary so they are questions I need to answer but I don't know how.

Would the mother be offended if I talked with her about it??

ravenmum

I've heard of transgender people asking to be treated like a person of their chosen sex, yes. I've heard of them trying to hide the fact that they were born a different sex, e.g. for fear of being beaten up. I haven't heard of any of them trying to fool people into thinking they were born of a different biological sex.

Very few transpeople can actually 'fool' someone in thinking they are the opposite sex. And I should imagine those who can, will.

All you can do is make it as difficult as possible for people to disagree.

As people generally do not find it easy to deny biology, the way to do that is to force it on people.

Whether that's by endless repetition, or by threats, or by calling one transphobic.

Believe me, it's everywhere.

And it directly results in kids thinking stuff like this.

Ravenmum you need to read peak trans. Denying biology is indeed the modus operandi nowadays.

peak trans

Dont sell yourself short, you do have the imagination, because its really not hard at all (In fact you absolutely can imagine it now because I've shared my experience with you :) ), its just you havent been in that situation were you have been asked by your child why people are saying X is a girl when hes a boy

I just bloody love that my very young DC has heard something and thought "erm.....that doesnt sound right, its not what Ive read/been taught" and enquired about it instead of just accepting it.

Nice set of screenshots datun

I've got hundreds butter. Those were among the least offensive.

God only knows what's going to happen to sex education. When everybody suddenly realises.

'So if a boy is now girl, how does she get pregnant?'

'Well, she can't'.

'So what makes her a girl?'

'A feeling/her dress/past trauma/social contagion/a neurological condition/AGP'.

'So nothing to do with a womb then?'

'Nope'.

Not sure about this as he could be intersex ie have some female parts too. This is something that can be found out later than the birth. Not saying this is the case but don't jump to the conclusion that the child is being encouraged to be transgender.

Whilst I agree that at 4 things a child is saying will probably not be the same their whole life, I very much doubt they are making any permanent changes now so there is no reason why they can't change later, once they become more aware of their own identity.

Or if they're still not sure when they're a bit older they could just take puberty blockers until they're certain? No better way to start yourself on a life of medication, surgery & infertility after all. www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/

I've heard of transgender people asking to be treated like a person of their chosen sex, yes.

And what do you think, does that mean?

Ideally, women and men should be treated the same, nowadays, unless biology means that there is a difference in needs. Because everything else is sexism.

So they sure as hell don't mean men should hold doors open for transwomen. (In case that was what you thought).

What they mean is that lesbians and straight men (but they put more pressure on lesbians) should have sex with transwomen. Bepenised transwomen, mind. They are coercing lesbians into having piv.

What they mean is that transwomen (i.e. males who may or may NOT have had cosmetic surgery) want access to spaces reserved for those who are actually of the female sex: Women's shelters, women's changing rooms, women's toilets, and yes, women's prisons, where prisoners have rooms together and have to shower together.

They also want to be included in the 50% women of any quota meant to combat the oppression of and discrimination against women. Actual women.

That's what you have to agree to in order to be a good trans ally nowadays.

The only thing they really have a RIGHT to, in a CIVILISED society, is for no one to bat an eye when they wear clothes that aren't the ones traditionally worn by their sex. And that no one be violent against them.

And that's a right feminism wants for everyone, trans or not, so it is a non-issue.

Why can't you just say "Because the teacher is in charge and has said that X can use the girls toilets"?

Your child is 4 years old - you don't have to give a massively in depth explanation, from a point of knowledge, given after finding out 'the facts' from the child's mother. You're just being nosey and actually, you're saying 'I don't think this is valid, so I'm going to make it awkward'.

Because the facts are that the girls' toilets are for girls and this child isn't a girl, regardless of what he's wearing.

What answer would you give to a child asking why a certain boy is allowed into the girls' toilets that's factually correct? What's awkward is distorting facts to meet a certain opinion.

But we don't know that this child is a "certain" boy. At the moment all we know is child is possibly:
a) a boy
b) a girl who doesn't meet the OP's criteria for feminity #ironic
c) intersex
d) trans

We do know he's a boy as the OP found the mother's FB where she was congratulated on the birth of her son. He may be intersex but given how rare intersex conditions are it's unlikely.

So, realistically, he's a boy wearing 'feminine' clothing. Fine, lovely, bring it on. That doesn't mean he uses the girls' toilets. And the issue of other boys following him into the girls' toilets needs to be addressed.

BarbarianMum

The child is a boy who is using the girls' toilets and is also being followed in there now by other boys.

I have found the mother on social media, her profile has photos of her DC as a newborn, with people congratulating her on her new DS so he is definatley a boy!

Fair enough. Although if I gave birth to an intersex child I don't think I'd announce that on facebook, I'd probably announce boy or girl then wait and see. But although possible, I admit its statistically unlikely to be the case here.

I agree. If the child is intersex, then it's a completely different story.

In response to the OP's question, I would do what Gah suggested, and go into school and say that my DD was concerned that boys were using the girls toilets, and see what the teacher says from there.

(I would also have up my sleeve the legal framework - assuming in England - that requires schools to have sex segregated toilets from the age of 8, ie the School Premises Regulations 2012.)

I would base my conversation with my DD on what the teacher says, but it would include the fact that if she is ever uncomfortable with someone else coming into the toilets she should tell a teacher / a trusted adult and she is not to feel bad about that. It's so so important to teach our daughters to listen to their instincts, particularly if they feel unsafe in a semi-private environment.

So, realistically, he's a boy wearing 'feminine' clothing. Fine, lovely, bring it on. That doesn't mean he uses the girls' toilets. And the issue of other boys following him into the girls' toilets needs to be addressed.

The boys following him into the girls' toilets is proof that they very well know he is a boy and treat him as a boy.

Don't think that needs adressing, tbh, other than making him use the toilet that fits with his sex, too.

It would be massively damaging to those boys to brainwash them into thinking that he is a girl because ... what? Because he wears a pink dress?

Children cannot see genderfeelz, and unlike adults, they are not afraid to point it out.

It is the Emperor's New Clothes all over.

Yes, absolutely. I was just responding to Barbarian's bullet list.

user1498911470 - You talk about confusing the child as to "which toilet is appropriate to use", and how this is confusing for others (girls, I assume?) who "see that they can't have a female only space."

The answer is that, when you're four, any toilet should be appropriate to use. Presumably the only toilets they've come across thus far are the ones at home which would be used by the entire family regardless of gender, or public ones where they my well have gone into the "wrong" one depending on which parent took them. School is where gender segregation starts; this child will have no notion as yet of what toilet society expects him to use. Equally, girls - for the same reasons as above - will have no notion as yet that they are entitled to a "female only" space. It is adults who place importance on these things, and some with good reason, but that's not what this is about.

RiverTam - no-one is telling anyone they they have to "believe or accept anything unquestioningly" about this child: the fact the the OP doesn't know many of the facts shows this. You can't possibly compare it to being forced into religious belief. The OP's DD hasn't even been told why this child uses the girls' bathroom, let alone told that she must accept unquestioningly that it's correct to do so!

I could go on with a few more of you, but the school run calls.

People, these kids are four and as such have been using unisex bathrooms their entire lives. No-one is forcing anything as far as any of you know. No-one knows this child, or the mother, or the school. Calm the fuck down.

She only uses a unisex bathroom in houses actually. Almost every other area we visit has a male/female bathroom and she goes to the female with me. There has never been an occasion where she has visited a males one but if she did she would understand she had to go into that one with dad/grandad but never alone. In the same way if a boy came into the girls at a shopping centre she would see this as 'wrong' but with his mum perfectly fine. Same with changing rooms.

4/5 is the age where they are starting to understand they are curious about boys/girls and there are boy/girl bathrooms for a reason.

FtM trans people don't usually get the perks of MtF due to being born with lady bits but then they don't usually feel entitled to them either for the same reason

I'd love to know what these perks are. My daughter is MTF, her life isn't exactly joyful. Neither is mine as it goes.

Just raise it with the school as a "My DD has told me that boys are using the girls toilets, is this correct confused?" and take it from there.

^^ This

Or tell her I think the boy has special permsiion to do so ? Or perhaps direct her question to her teacher?

but it would include the fact that if she is ever uncomfortable with someone else coming into the toilets she should tell a teacher / a trusted adult and she is not to feel bad about that. It's so so important to teach our daughters to listen to their instincts, particularly if they feel unsafe in a semi-private environment.

Though this is probably a good idea as well.