to not know how to explain transgender child in DD's class

[Peaches44]

I'm sorry if this comes across offensive but I am incredibly naive when it comes to these kinds of issues.

DD has a boy in her class, they are in reception year. At the start of the year she asked if the DC was a boy or girl and I could only answer as being not sure. The mother is very quiet so I hadn't heard her refer to the child as a he or she. The name is more 'boy' but could possibly be a girls also, the child wears a mixture of girls and boys uniforms and on non-school uniform days they wear girls clothes.

DD now knows he is a boy, but he is apparently allowed in the girls toilets and DD at 4 doesn't understand why, she also said a few other boys see this boy able to go in the girls and the boys follow.

She has asked a few times why he does tis etc. and I don't know the right answer, they are likely to be in the same school year for the whole of primary so they are questions I need to answer but I don't know how.

Would the mother be offended if I talked with her about it??

"As I understand it, the OP just used "transgender" as shorthand to get the general gist of what might be going on. There's no indication that either the school or the parents say this child is transgender. The child could be intersex, or these might just be some of those parents who don't want to force a gendered life on their child, as long as it is possible. We don't know."

Exactly this. I obviously don't know the full story and whether the boy identifies as a girl/intersex/just likes the clothes. But trying to sum up the situation in a short title the term best described it.

For the PP who said about it being a privacy issue, the younger children's toilets do not have urinals, just cubicals the toilet is exactly the same as the girls except the fact it is for the 'boys'.

I'm not judging on the parenting choices his parents make as I don't know how I would deal with the situation if it were my DC. If there were no toilet issue I would tell DD that he just likes those clothes and that would go over her head as she is a bit young to understand those things. But even in reception the children are very aware of the 'rules' and I think boys/girls toilets is an important one. As an adult I wouldn't go into a male toilet and I would be uncomfortable if a male who occasionally dressed as a woman were in the ladies.

And I obviously don't want to say because X feels more like a girl etc. incase this is a phase for the boy who may come back in Sept as 'male' and confuse DD even more!

It is quite a small town, and probably not something the school have encountered before, I think the school probably don't know how best to deal with it but it seems like this boy's needs trump the others for fear of not being politically correct.

Just raise it with the school as a "My DD has told me that boys are using the girls toilets, is this correct ?" and take it from there.

Why do you need to say it, though? I mean, do you think these men are trying to fool us into thinking they are biological women, and your children need to be warned in case they are fooled? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick there? I've just really never needed to tell my children that!

Well no they arent fooling anyone tbf are they - men cant become women - so no, thats not my concern

Twas just a factual chat after a question was asked about why people are saying X must now be a girl, I stuck up for the kid by saying that no, just because he likes long curly hair and playing in the home area and wears Hello Kitty stuff that doesn't mean he is a girl. At all. Because boys cant be girls.

Just realised I didnt answer your question - "Why do you need to say it, though?"

because my kid asked me a question, and its part of my job as a parent to aid their education and understanding.

And it's exactly why parents need to have that conversation with the school and apply an actual label. They can't avoid it.

I'd disagree. They can avoid it and I'd go further and say they have a duty to.

The two biggest influences on children this age are parents and school. If parents and school were united in saying 'it's fine for boys to wear school dresses, just like it's fine for girls to wear trousers' it would do the job perfectly

The answer to 'why is Bill wearing a skirt' becomes the much simpler (and truthful) 'because he wants to / because he likes it' rather than trying to segregate children into rigid gender categories based on their clothing and play preferences - which only serves to further entrench ideas of 'appropriate' gender behaviours and preferences and leaves those who don't conform feeling like they must not be a boy/girl because they don't like boy/girl things.

Its a question that needs answering so my DD understands the world and the people in it, in the same way she asked the first time she saw someone in a mobility scooter why the lady was allowed to "break the rules" and drive on the grass.

We teach our children these rules to prepare them for their future lives and I feel I need to explain to her the different ways rules are sometimes broken, she needs to understand why this boy might be allowed but that she is not allowed in the boys etc.

True, we have to say something. I guess I'm just surprised you expect your children to ask this question as that hasn't been my experience, but that's my lack of imagination!

I've heard this idea that trans people are trying to fool others into thinking they are the other sex; just never heard it from an actual trans person :)

That was to GahBugger, sorry to derail a bit!

Today 10:38 ravenmum

Isn't that a bit conspiracy-theory? Transgender specifically uses the word "gender", after all...

Yes they do. Until they don't. Maintaining that your gender identity dictates your sex, your actual sex is what reinforces the stereotypes.

The most obvious one, for instance, that lesbians should have no trouble sleeping with transwomen because their actual sex is female, despite their anatomy being male.

I don't think anyone would have any trouble with gender being messed with.

But when it leads to denial of biology, which is more important for girls than boys, the trouble starts.

(Quite apart from the fact that it's bonkers).

raven well, I suggest you google Danielle Muscato, for a start, and spend a bit of time on Tumblr and Twitter, they are full of trans activists and trans people saying exactly that. I don't think they're doing any genuine transsexual people any favours, but they are certainly out there, and they are certainly being listened to.

If you say, almost anywhere online, that a transwoman is biologically male you will get absolutely pounced on.

I didnt expect them to ask? Have you actually read any of my posts?

Im very surprised you have never heard of a trans person expecting others to believe they are now a woman/man. Isnt Danielle Muscato's female penis still taking up a space for an actual woman in a womens refuge?

I was referring to your description, which I read very carefully multiple times, of what you will say if your children ask you more questions in future:

*Like when my DC get older if they have any more questions Id obviously go into more detail ... ie. a small number of men will have surgery so their genitals look like women's..."

I've heard of transgender people asking to be treated like a person of their chosen sex, yes. I've heard of them trying to hide the fact that they were born a different sex, e.g. for fear of being beaten up. I haven't heard of any of them trying to fool people into thinking they were born of a different biological sex.

Oh apologies, I thought you were talking about me having a general expectation which resulted in the chat.

of course, it stands to reason that if they have asked me a question about something once before, and the situation that sparked their curiosity crops up again, then they will ask about it again, no?

And for the full context, I said what Id say in future if they asked again because I mentioned explanations being age appropriate, so initially my explanation was a very basic "no, boys cant be girls" but if they asked again Id go into more details if appropriate.

I know you said you read my post carefully multiple times but its pretty clear you didnt, so I hope this post helps clarify things for you :)

You will probably discover you are a "transphobic bigot" too ravenmum by the standards of today's transactivists, if you inform yourself about where the ideology is actually going these days.

And there you were thinking you were a decent, liberal sort of person.

As I said, it's clearly just my lack of imagination as this never came up with my children. Somehow they went from showing absolutely no interest in the gay mums at playschool to having gay and transgender friends (late teens) without needing my wise advice on the matter!

Ffs age 4 and being labeled trans gender is just plain ridiculous !!! It will be the daft bloody parents ...... the world's gone gender mad !!!

Imagination doesnt come into it, my kid was just naturally curious as to why a boy was being told he must now be a girl because he liked stereotypical girls things. he couldnt understand why someone would say that when he said himself hes just a boy who likes different things to the other boys.

As I say he loves biology and science so has of course learned about the sexes and biology in that respect so he was wondering why people were almost saying science isnt correct. I love how inquisitive and bright he is and how he will question if he sees something stated as fact when it cant be :)

raven so they've just unthinkingly accepted their classmates new identity? That's not really a good thing, you know. And I'll bet that they will have seen and read a lot in the Internet about transwomen insisting they are women.

There's being open minded, and being so open minded your brains have fallen out. Personally, I'd like to be sure my DC aren't in the second category.

I'm talking about my not being able to think of a situation where a child would need to be told this - which you have explained admirably - so it is clearly just me not being able to envisage this situation because I lack imagination. My children are also bright but clearly not very inquisitive about this particular subject!

Yy. DD watched that thing on cbbc was it "my name is leo" or something? Anyway, premise was that the protagonist was born a boy, but liked girl things, (girl brain in boy body) so was now becoming a girl. Obviously that was a pretty confusing idea so we had a chat about that.

It is really important that kids can be kids without folk rushing to label them or put them on puberty blockers

RiverTam - obviously not! Adieu.