to not know how to explain transgender child in DD's class

[Peaches44]

I'm sorry if this comes across offensive but I am incredibly naive when it comes to these kinds of issues.

DD has a boy in her class, they are in reception year. At the start of the year she asked if the DC was a boy or girl and I could only answer as being not sure. The mother is very quiet so I hadn't heard her refer to the child as a he or she. The name is more 'boy' but could possibly be a girls also, the child wears a mixture of girls and boys uniforms and on non-school uniform days they wear girls clothes.

DD now knows he is a boy, but he is apparently allowed in the girls toilets and DD at 4 doesn't understand why, she also said a few other boys see this boy able to go in the girls and the boys follow.

She has asked a few times why he does tis etc. and I don't know the right answer, they are likely to be in the same school year for the whole of primary so they are questions I need to answer but I don't know how.

Would the mother be offended if I talked with her about it??

There is nothing the parent can do other than use the word trans because of other people. The child cant just rock up in girls clothing with no explanation or discussion thanks to society. So those of you who spit at the parents for 'labelling' a child trans at 4 are exactly the people causing the need for the label. You are actually more of a problem than a child who is more comfortable presenting as the other gender. Maybe if you'd just stop labelling all children so tightly and insisting on segregating them (toilets etc....they're CHILDREN, why they need segregated toilets is beyond me) some of the less sure children could explore who they are without having to announce it to other parents and teachers at the age of 4. They have no choice but to label because of other people and their expectations.

I haye this attitude that parents have any fucking influence...i think the biggest influence is society's constant desire to classify things as boys and girls. Confuses children that start to think if i like this i must be this gender... i genuinely feel that if people were more free to like whatever they like without it being linked to gender it wouldn't be such an issue.

Totally agree. I've never understood why young children need separate toilets anyway. We have unisex toilets at work, and it's not a problem (although sometimes men piss on the seats).

I wanted to be a boy when I was 4, because boys have more fun and adventures. But I also wanted to be a penguin, and later a horse. My parents didn't send me to live in Antarctica or build me a stable.

Gender is just a social construct and it pisses me off that people still get so exercised about it.

No one is denying children shouldn't act in any way they like with regards to stereotypes.

What they are saying is if a boy 'acts' like a girl, he must be a girl.

It just underpins the stereotype.

Labelling a 4 year old child as transgender is outrageous.

What are his parents thinking?

A boy can be feminine and a girl can be a tomboy without it meaning they are transgender. It's really gone mad!

Denying or disguising what sex you are does not usefully lead to the abandonment of gender stereotypes.

Because puberty will put paid to all that. People will still be assigned stereotypes based on their sex.

It sounds like it might work in theory, but in practice it doesn't. The only way to abandon gender stereotypes is to rid the world of the notion that one sex is inferior to the other.

Except for medical issues, there's no need for anyone to question whether any person is a boy or girl. Yet they do, pages and pages of outrage about it. That is the crux of the problem. Not the definition or stereotype of sex or gender. The trans person is never the problem.

IIWM OP Id take out the daft AF trans nonsense because no 4 year old is trans although they can be forcibly transED by parents wanting a bit of sad limelight

Approach it from the very basic stance - "Hi Teacher, just wanted a chat with you as my DD says that boys are going into the girls toilets, obviously you werent aware of this so just thought Id let you know" and take it from there.

I have already had the chat with my DC about how boys simply cant become girls, however much they'd like to, and vice versa. Although TBF they already knew this having a basic grasp of biology.

YoureNotASausage

I agree with you up to a point. If no one knew the sex of all the children in a class of 30, gender stereotypes would be difficult to assign.

Because we probably all do it, without realising. The problem with that, is you have to ensure the entire world is complicit in either not knowing, or fighting against their bias.

It's interesting though.

More as a thought experiment really. Because in the real world it doesn't work that way.

The child cant just rock up in girls clothing with no explanation or discussion thanks to society

Er, yes they can, as demonstrated by countless gender critical parents on this thread. Why on earth the boy needs to use the girls loo while he's specifically wearing ribbons and pink shoes is the problem.

Datun, that's exactly it. And it's exactly why parents need to have that conversation with the school and apply an actual label. They can't avoid it.

I have already had the chat with my DC about how boys simply cant become girls
"The" chat, as if that's a chat we all know about and recognise? Sounds more like "a" chat to me. And not one I've ever found it necessary to have!

You knew what I meant though right?

Its not a chat Id have thought would ever be necessary tbh but here we are!!

It does get complicated. To segregate or not to segregate?

There are very good reasons why girls and women need some segregated facilities. Reasons which don't necessarily apply to boys and men.

It's not useful to teach girls that their boundaries are important or unnecessary. Or that the reasons for those boundaries do not lie in sex differences.

So the distinction has to be made. And as soon as it is made, bang! Stereotypes get assigned.

transgenerism and the new trend of gender neutral are complete opposites

^ this.

Parents who label their kids as transgender are reinforcing gender stereotypes.

• unimportant

Lucky our preschool has shared unisex toilets. Otherwise on days when DS has insisted on having his toenails painted, he should be going to girls?

I'm not sure if I know what you meant, no, GahBugger. I guess you mean that you had a conversation with them about transgender people (not intersex people), and that you said that people who are born with purely male or female physical attributes might feel more like the opposite sex, but that does not change their genitals/chromosomes? Which is true, I guess, but not the point...

So you did know what I meant then?

Although I toned it down obviously as they are only quite young. Just kept it to very basic facts about how humans are born either a boy or a girl and while they can dress and look how they want they can never change that they are a boy/girl.

From your brief description it seems that I did. I just can't see the point of that discussion, though. It seems pretty obvious, and as I say completely misses the point of what it is to be transgender :) Not a discussion I have ever felt the need to have.

Well tbh transgender never came into it, just kept it factual and age appropriate - boys cant change their sex and neither can girls but they can both dress/act how they like :)

Obviously I didnt blurt it out one day, it was in response to a question my eldest had about a boy in his class who everyone says looks and acts like a girl.

I do remember my son asking "Why are those boys brown?" - we live in a very white area! - and I said "Because their mum or dad is brown. If I was brown you'd be brown too", which also completely misses the point of what it is to be mixed race I guess! The funny things we say to our kids...

The problem with all this is that transactivists are pushing the notion that biological sex is socially constructed. That talking about male biology or female psychology is cissexist. And that gender identity determines whether or not you are a boy or a girl.

Transactivists are mostly adult men, not mothers of four-year-olds.

Nonetheless, this is the message.

Everyone knows you can't change sex. Mothers are making sure their children know that, whilst realising, more than most, how gender stereotyping is detrimental to women and girls.

Schools are being given literature by activist groups to promote the 'gender determines sex', line.

And even though everyone knows that is simply not true, lines are being blurred.

Isn't that a bit conspiracy-theory? Transgender specifically uses the word "gender", after all...

I have a similar issue, DS1 (26) came out to me as transgender recently, I've avoided saying anything to DD (9) and DS2 (5) as yet.

Watching with interest.

Well yes you could have gone into more detail but if its not age appropriate then there's no harm done if you keep it simple :)

Like when my DC get older if they have any more questions Id obviously go into more detail if I thought it was required (doubt it though, they are both pretty interested in science and biology and have a good grasp of the basics) ie. a small number of men will have surgery so their genitals look like women's but this still doesn't make them a biological woman etc etc, some parents think that a boy wanting to wear tutus thinks this means they must be girls but they are incorrect and so on.