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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not know how to explain transgender child in DD's class

365 replies

Peaches44 · 05/07/2017 20:01

I'm sorry if this comes across offensive but I am incredibly naive when it comes to these kinds of issues.

DD has a boy in her class, they are in reception year. At the start of the year she asked if the DC was a boy or girl and I could only answer as being not sure. The mother is very quiet so I hadn't heard her refer to the child as a he or she. The name is more 'boy' but could possibly be a girls also, the child wears a mixture of girls and boys uniforms and on non-school uniform days they wear girls clothes.

DD now knows he is a boy, but he is apparently allowed in the girls toilets and DD at 4 doesn't understand why, she also said a few other boys see this boy able to go in the girls and the boys follow.

She has asked a few times why he does tis etc. and I don't know the right answer, they are likely to be in the same school year for the whole of primary so they are questions I need to answer but I don't know how.

Would the mother be offended if I talked with her about it??

OP posts:
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WillRikersExtraNipple · 05/07/2017 21:41

But its you that have decided that skirts hairs and pink shoes are for girls...therefore affirming gender sterio types and continuning the cycle

Don't be ridiculous, its not OP that has arbitrarily decided that its girls that wear skirts. It's society and history. It's not a novel notion that it is girls that wear skirts, in general.

Bumdishcloths · 05/07/2017 21:42

OP, talk to the school.

Everyone else going mental about transgender four year olds, please have a word with yourselves.

The issue is that OP's child doesn't know what sex the child is and neither does OP, so assuming anything is ridiculous.

Crumbs1 · 05/07/2017 21:42

Poor child is definitely going to have issues later. I'd be telling my child that this boys mother liked to dress him as a girl sometimes and that was a bit confusing for him.

NewYearsAoibhe · 05/07/2017 21:43

What's worrying to me is the number of people saying "ask the mum/ask the school what words they use to explain it, then use the same explanation with your dc."

Where is the critical thinking about this??

So some other family or the school has signed up to the backward notion that gender roles are innate and edifying, being a girl or a boy is determined by what you wear, and there's such thing as "feeling/thinking/acting like a girl", as opposed to being an individual with a unique personality. And therefore the 'right' thing for you do to is to unquestioningly sell your impressionable kid the same line of sexist bullshit, shaping his or her own attitudes toward what it means to be a girl or a boy, and how boys and girls 'should' think and behave, all in order to avoid causing offense by deviating from the other parents' / school's narrative about gender?

Fuck that.

I would be approaching the school and saying clearly that if there is indeed a child identified as transgender in the class, I fully understand the teacher and school's obligation to be supportive, inclusive and nurturing to him/her, but I expect them to do so without validating or reinforcing sexist stereotypes at school, without suggesting to the children that it's possible to change biological sex, without using 'gender identity' in place of 'personality' to describe interests and characteristics, and without making any child, particularly girls, feel that they should be more concerned with someone else's feelings than they are with their own boundaries, when it comes to things like who uses the bathroom with them.

And I'd be telling my child that different people believe different things. We believe that being a boy or a girl has nothing to do with what you can wear or what you can be interested in or what you can do, unless it's something you do with the boy or girl / man or woman parts of your body (like having a baby). Other people believe that girls should have one kind of personality and boys should have another. Lots of people used to think that way, and thats why women used to not be able to vote and men didn't know how to change nappies. I know, can you believe it?! Thankfully, a smaller number of people think that way about what men and women should be allowed to do, now. Most people know that boys and girls can like whatever they want, and men and women can grow up to do any job. But if a family believes boys should be one way and girls another, and they have a boy who wants to wear pink and play with dolls, they might believe that means the boy is really a girl. That's not what we think makes a boy or a girl, but it's okay for people to believe different things and the important thing is that we're kind to others whether their beliefs are like ours or not. And I would be reiterating to my dc that no interest or favorite colour or outfit or personality trait will ever change the fact that they are a boy / girl, or make them more or less of a boy / girl. And equally the fact that they are and always will be a boy / girl should never limit their interests, and anyone who makes them feel like it should, is plain wrong.

RiverTam · 05/07/2017 21:45

I absolute refuse to teach my DD that it's possible to change sex, and that girls can have a willy. That is out-and-out incorrect, unfactual, delusional, a lie. I would like to know how the school will approach this without telling lies themselves.

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/07/2017 21:46

Lurkedforever1

If you don't like being picked up on stupid comments then don't post them. Its very simple.

And whether you like it or not the school will not be able to confirm the child's sex or gender.

FirstShinyRobe · 05/07/2017 21:47

Awesome, awesome post NewYearsAoibhe

Sofabitch · 05/07/2017 21:48

Don't be ridiculous, its not OP that has arbitrarily decided that its girls that wear skirts. It's society and history. It's not a novel notion that it is girls that wear skirts, in general.

But it shouldn't be.

thereallochnessmonster · 05/07/2017 21:55

Hear, hear, newyear- great post!

Maxandrubyrubyandmax · 05/07/2017 22:07

If the child is 4 or 5 I would say to my child unfortunately the parents of said child are total tossers and using their child to be trendy politically correct wankers who are potentially ruining their child's life so they can sip prosecco going on about how they are so accepting of their transgender child who once expressed an interest in blue. I would also have a word with school and state separating boys and girls with anything other than have penis=boys don't have penis=girl in reception is too unsettling for children that age - far too young to be confused by the current trend. Quite frankly the world has gone fucking mad that you even have to consider raising this issue with reception kids!

Pansiesandredrosesandmarigolds · 05/07/2017 22:09

Well, if you follow the mumsnet advice you should tell your daughter that this child is deluded and has mentally ill/abusive parents and start a campaign banning them from the girls' toilets.

Or you could ask the school what they suggest.

FirstShinyRobe · 05/07/2017 22:12

Given that schools are largely taking their lead from Mermaids and GIRES, I would suggest engaging brain first, then speaking to the school.

WillRikersExtraNipple · 05/07/2017 22:12

But it shouldn't be

Why? And if you know how to throw out a thousand years of fashion history overnight I'd love to hear it.

AssassinatedBeauty · 05/07/2017 22:15

I don't think asking the school will help. They won't be able to tell you anything specific about the child. There's also nothing that you really need to know. The child is 4, and working out their own personality, which at the moment means sometimes wearing clothes normally associated with the opposite sex. With regards to the toilets, I'd just say that it doesn't really matter which toilets a small child uses and for your DD to tell the teachers if other children are causing problems in the toilets as a result of this child using them.

grannytomine · 05/07/2017 22:16

LadyLoveYourWhat, you do realise that your sensible, reasonable post isn't the done thing on here. You really need to be describing children as "fucking 4 year olds" and obviously your child will have issues because of your completely reasonable approach. Can we have a bit more hysteria please.

I was actually like your daughter, nobody seemed bothered in the 50s that I had a boys hair cut and liked boys clothes, hated dolls and girls stuff. Hated school as I had to wear a dress.

Do you think anyone Scottish on here is puzzled about the horror of a boy wearing a kilt/skirt? My kids went to a school with kilts as part of the uniform - for girls! Why couldn't the boys wear them?

One of my sons spent a couple of years wanting to be a Disney princess, his brothers treasure the photos and say they will be displaying them at his wedding. I think he is staying single. He has no desire to be a princess now, he is keen on being a boxer but I think I would prefer the princess route.

Pansiesandredrosesandmarigolds · 05/07/2017 22:16

Ah yes, I forgot. The world has gone mad. The only wisdom is to be found on mumsnet. There are no trans people, only madmen and perverts and The Biggest Issue Ever is who goes in what toilet.

Peaches44 · 05/07/2017 22:19

I have found the mother on social media, her profile has photos of her DC as a newborn, with people congratulating her on her new DS so he is definatley a boy!

DD hasn't been raised that she has to conform to the stereotype, she picks the toys she wants and we have never had the 'pink' option unless thats what she picks and shes often picked t-shirts from the boys section as she likes spiderman. I understand that having your hair a certain way, wearing certain colours etc. doesn't make a girl or a boy but given there is a boys uniform, a girls uniform and a neutral one, and a boy/girl toilet that is wherr DD is confused and I don't want to say he is allowed in there because he wants to etc. because men can't go in women's toilets and vice versa.

OP posts:
grannytomine · 05/07/2017 22:20

Why? And if you know how to throw out a thousand years of fashion history overnight I'd love to hear it. We seem to have managed it with women and girls wearing trousers. Haven't seen anyone faint at the sight of a woman in trousers for absolutely ages although my mother told me it caused quite a sensation when she and her friends started wearing them for war work.

Popfan · 05/07/2017 22:21

Complete nonsense at 4! When I was a small child I was a real tomboy, remember saying I wanted to be a boy. Think it was because my best friends were boys. I wouldn't wear skirts, had short hair the lot. Now I would probably be labelled as transgender. Anyway I grew out of it all by the time I was in junior school. Not saying this is the case for all children but I shudder with horror at the thought that someone might have taken it all seriously!

grannytomine · 05/07/2017 22:22

Popfan what is nonsense? No one has said the child is transgender, he likes wearing the girls uniform some days, no different to you deciding you didn't want to wear skirts.

Lurkedforever1 · 05/07/2017 22:24

boney pick up on whatever you like in my posts, it truly doesn't bother me. I was simply trying to be pleasant and explain my meaning as it clearly went right over you. Likewise you seemed to be somewhat confused about what is legally required from a school.

However if you'd rather just post insults with repetitive use of the word stupid then do crack on, whatever floats your boat.

Itsjustaphase2016 · 05/07/2017 22:25

What the actual fuck? Where is this crazy school??

They are endorsing irresponsible insane behaviour that is damaging to such a young child.

Sorry,but I almost don't believe this. The school would have needed educational psychologists/social workers etc input to do such a thing and I do not believe that they would allow this to happen to an infant.

FirstShinyRobe · 05/07/2017 22:25

Surely we just let kids crack on with doing what they want, with the very small provisos of privacy in relation to sex based differences.

It's the labelling of stuff that's the issue, but it's degenerated into the labelling of people based on stuff that has become a very real problem.

PossumInAPearTree · 05/07/2017 22:26

Dd spent all of Reception saying she was a cat and meowed to other kids rather than talked! A decade on she's embarrased if reminded.

Lottapianos · 05/07/2017 22:26

'They don't get 'girl' stuff. But neither fit in with 'bloke' stuff'

Don't you think most people feel that way to some degree? There's plenty of stuff that many women are into that I don't give a stuff about. I have short hair and wear only flat shoes and often wear trousers. I also have painted nails and a full face of make up almost every day. I know I'm a woman because I have a vulva instead of a penis. All the gender stuff is optional and should be available to everyone

Labelling a 4 year old as 'trans' is INSANE by the way