To wonder if social services are involved?

[HickDead]

I'll probably get flamed for this but finding the whole situation desperately sad for the child(ren?) involved. Who does this and in the full glare of the media too, I'm getting that they are two damaged individuals but come on, this is awful if true!

www.google.co.uk/amp/metro.co.uk/2017/07/05/jeremy-mcconnell-confirms-stephanie-davis-pregnancy-and-truth-behind-horrific-hotel-fight-6756942/amp/

This is completely off topic but how do you think they're pronouncing Caben?

Is Cay-ben? Or like Cabin? I've never seen them interviewed irl, so I haven't heard it but it's really bugging me.

Don't be an arse Will Most women manage to live their lives perfectly well for 9 months without being locked up OR getting steaming drunk and being arrested for assaulting their partners

How does that disagree with my point at all? It doesn't.

You really can't understand such a simple point, too busy getting all upset at what you think I said, rather than what I actually said.
Obviously too many celeb mags rotting your brains.

I think it's cay-ben from the time he was on This Morning talking about the paternity test.

Will

You said her body her choice - I said only to an extent - pregnant or not

Now are you getting that

Cayben I think TheHiph

I hope social services are involved and am guessing they will be. I wonder if the baby is being looked after by her mum maybe?

Guys, don't bite! Will is sounding like one of those "devils advocate" MRA posts that's supposed to show us the hypocrisy in feminism and pro-choice via hyperbole!

There is no hyperbole or hypocrisy. It's a very simple point. If women choose to drink while pregnant they can, and no-one can stop them.

Now, without the hysteria, can anyone tell me calmly what is wrong with that statement? No, because it is an obvious truth and we all agree with it.

@EB123 Thank you!!

Will isn't saying anything controversial, just that you can't police pregnant women's bodies. No one is saying that drinking when pregnant is desirable or a good thing to do.

Thank you stitch. I really don't know what this lot are complaining about, it's not a strange concept, is it?

Oh and @HickDead too! Thanks :)

See, I've no idea who either of these people are (did she used to be on Hollyoaks?) and yet I know an inordinate amount about their trials and tribulations. Why the need to play everything out through the media?

I bloody hope SS are involved. I honestly can't believe she's pregnant again.

Will didn't just say you can't police pregnant women's bodies (uncontroversial).

S/he also said that it was no business of social services if a woman drinks while pregnant. Controversial and completely untrue.

Will is actually completely right (in the legal sense) - before a baby is born it is part of the mother and social services can't intervene to stop a pregnant woman drinking/taking drugs any more than they can force you to take folic acid, have the whooping cough vaccination (spina bifida and neonatal whooping cough can be life threatening), go to your scans etc. Midwives and social workers can support the pregnant woman but if she chooses not to engage there's nothing they can do during the pregnancy.

Once the baby is born, if the mother continues to behave in a way that shows she can't care for the child (that may include alcohol or drug issues) then social services can intervene as the child is now a separate person with it's own autonomy.

Will
I said this upthread but you haven't responded.
You said it's not Social services business if she gets drunk while pregnant.
I pointed out that it is, because addiction issues can put newborn babies at risk of significant harm. So while social services can't force pregnant women to access services, they can (under the children act, section 47 and then section 31 if you're interested) take action to protect the unborn baby once it is born. So it absolutely is social services business and they can and do intervene when pregnant women are getting off their faces on drink and drugs. Not to police what they do with their bodies or because they are vessels but because being an addict when pregnant means you will be an addict when you give birth if you don't get help, and addicts neglect and accidentally kill their infants.

What action can social services take to stop a pregnant woman drinking then? I thought they could only act once the child was born.

S/he also said that it was no business of social services if a woman drinks while pregnant. Controversial and completely untrue.

Exactly. This is what I am taking issue with Will if you can grasp that

What action can social services take to stop a pregnant woman drinking then? I thought they could only act once the child was born.

None. But they can initiate child protection proceedings and if the mother doesn't work with them they can initiate care proceedings and remove the baby at birth if the concerns are strong enough.

Being able to act and having no business being involved are not the same thing.
Intervention is offered to pregnant women before they give birth to maximise their chances of keeping their babies. If they choose not to engage with those services they can be taken to court when the baby is born and lose care of them.

I think Stephanie is a pretty sad person, product of pushy parents (wasn't she about 14 on that Andrew Lloyd Webber programme?), sacked from Hollyoaks for being drunk at work and now this car crash of a life that sadly involves a tiny baby.

The main argument was whether Social Services could get involved because the mother is drinking (and fighting) during her pregnancy. They can if they feel there could be alcohol dependence.

"There is no national guidance on what constitutes a risk of harm to an unborn child. Local Safeguarding Children’s Boards and social services departments have varied protocols on protecting unborn children. Common issues often identified in these protocols include:

• maternal drug and alcohol dependence
• domestic violence
• parent aged under 16
• parent who has previously harmed a child"

www.birthrights.org.uk/library/factsheets/Facing-Criticism.pdf

Exactly adalind but she is completely missing that point and it is that comment which she needs to come back and defend

But the thing is 99 percent of people do want to be good parents so what ss CAN do is offer support with addictions or other issues and hope the mother and or father engage - while they cannot mandate it before birth they can offer it.

And none of this arguing about legalities removes the moral responsibility of a parent to ensure their child's needs are met before and after birth.

'He has suffered a broken nose, fractured eye socket and a concussion, while Stephanie was left with scratches to her face and allegedly suffered five broken ribs.'

That's shocking.
I'm police and, at least in my force, upon arrest a risk assessment for the 6 month old will have been completed and sent to our child protection team for review.

We complete these even if the child wasn't present during the fight.

CPT then refer on to multi agency team, including social services, if it's felt it's needed. (Which lets face it surely it would be in this case)

S/he also said that it was no business of social services if a woman drinks while pregnant. Controversial and completely untrue

It's not untrue. It is no business of SS WHILE she is still pregnant. She doesn't have to engage with them in anyway. They can act AFTER she is pregnant, when there is an extant child.Not before.

Come on people, stop arguing against me when you know I'm right!

I have no idea who those couple of scumbags are.

Oh Jesus

For
Some reason I watched celeb BB that year and she was a car crash back then she definitely has some MH issues and is vulnerable
He is also a mess as he lost alot of his family

Together they are toxic

Awful / I fear for that child