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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To gently tell my friend why her son is unpopular

139 replies

Whoareyouu · 05/07/2017 03:04

NC because this is potentially outing.

Best friend of 20 years has 2 boys, 9 and 11. Eldest one is shy and suffers from anxiety. But once he feels comfortable with his surroundings he is an absolute delightful child, thoughtful and interesting, and he is sensitive and socially aware despite his shyness.

The younger one though is spoilt and bratty. Throws tantrums if he doesn't get his own way, is very whiny and has zero manners.

I love my friend dearly and wouldn't ever wish to hurt her. But she seems completely blind to her younger child's behaviour.

He is bright and knows it. Will often say things like "I'm such a clever boy!" if he gets something right. And gloats when another child gets an answer wrong.

My friend gets upset that he is unpopular and doesn't understand why. She reasons that people are jealous and that it is a side effect of being gifted.

I have bitten my tongue on so many occasions. But it is getting worse and now he is getting bullied for being a show off know all.

Obviously bullying is wrong and my friend is absolutely right to tackle it with the school. But AIBU to gently say something to her or should I keep my mouth shut to avoid upsetting her?

OP posts:
millifiori · 05/07/2017 08:07

I wouldn't say anything. I had a friend who I thought was parenting her son disastrously. If he ever wanted a toy another child was playing with she'd gently insist the other child gave it to him. He seemed utterly spoilt to me, and never waited his turn. I found out years later that he had severe MH and autism issues, and what she was actually doing was preventing huge tantrums and meltdowns in public. I'm so glad I never had that quiet word with her, because we're still friends now.

Laiste · 05/07/2017 08:08

Taking the OP at it's word (the boy's a PITA) then OP needs to keep her mouth shut.

There are some things a friendship will stand and some things it most probably wont. Criticising a persons child (and therefore their parenting) is in the 'wont' category IMO.

EdmundCleverClogs · 05/07/2017 08:08

My youngest sibling was very much like that at nine, it was complete parroting of parents but they did have an attitude about it. Other kids didn't take too kindly to it (and other parents weren't too pleased either). The thing is, they took this attitude (but no extra effort) through to GCSEs, I don't think anyone felt too sorry for them when they had merely average GCSE results - alienating other students wasn't even worth it in the end. Should you say something though? Quite frankly, if it's the parents who have conditioned the child this way, I doubt they will see the problem, I wouldn't bother. Hopefully he'll grow out of it and realise that being 'the best' in subjects isn't all there is.

As for comparing to 'I'm the best runner' - no one is the complete best at any/every subject. Someone might be the 'obvious best' at 100 meters or doing fractions, another person might very easily outperform them at cross country or algebra. There's nothing to be ashamed of in being smart or exceptionally good at something, but bragging and being full of your own importance will never win you true friends or even likability.

OllyBJolly · 05/07/2017 08:08

What Pictish said.

You're only getting a snapshot of this child unless you are with him constantly in every situation. Maybe he picks up on your favouritism of the oldest child and this is all a cry from attention from you? You won't know that.

Laiste · 05/07/2017 08:17

One of my oldest friends raised her 2 DCs very differently from each other. It was as clear as day from reception age. The eldest has turned out lovely, the youngest - ''K'' - is now a spoiled 'world owes me everything on a plate and i'll tantrum till mummy sorts it for me' 23 year old.

We're still mates though. My friend's spoiled child never affected me so i've always ignored it (except when my DD (same age) shows me all ''K''s typically self absorbed FB updates - we do have a laugh at those i'm afraid to say).

elfinpre · 05/07/2017 08:33

And also, you know, there are different types of people in the world and you don't have to like or be liked by all of them. Many show-offy, drawing attention to themselves, obnoxious at times people do pretty well for themselves in life and are quite popular, however much you don't personally like them. And they don't give a monkeys that you don't like them.

CoteDAzur · 05/07/2017 08:42

"inflicting her geek ways up on him"

What is this supposed to mean?

A mother dares share her (unconventional) tastes in books, music, hobbies with her son - how dare she Hmm

teaandakitkat · 05/07/2017 08:47

I had a parent once ask me for my opinion on why their dd was struggling socially. I figured if they were asking then they really wanted to know so I very gently said that she has a tendency to talk a lot about how clever she is and how easy everything in school is for her. The parent's response was "Oh well she is very clever, there's not much we can do about that".
So you can try, but the parent probably won't really listen anyway

Bluntness100 · 05/07/2017 08:52

I think you need to stay out of it. It's very hard to tell a parent their child's faults the odds are it will end your friendship. They both need to work it out for themselves. She also may know deep down, simply not wish to acknowledge it to you, it's equally as hard to voice it about your own child.

Tinseleverywhere · 05/07/2017 08:53

Both boys have problems socially, the eldest is very shy and the youngest is not good at seeing how his behaviour affects others and adjusting. For example saying "I'm such a clever boy" would win indulgent smiles from his parents but others won't like it. Normally by 9 a kid would see that and adjust naturally. So I think this is two sides of the same coin.

paxillin · 05/07/2017 09:01

Don't say anything. Praise the older one for his brains.

mummyrabbitpeppapig · 05/07/2017 09:04

I'm thinking two things - he's jealous of his brother or he has SN- either way I'd keep my thoughts to myself

GreenTulips · 05/07/2017 09:05

This thread is horrid

When is it ever acceptable for a child to be bullied? When?

What about the parents of the bullies - why don't you go and tell them why bullying is wrong and they are being unkind to another human being?

Do you know adults are protected by law but children aren't?

Do you know that schools and teachers often do nothing?

Do you know that bullies billy because they get away with it?

We should teach children to accept each other - we do for disability and race - colour - yet it's ok because he's a bit of a show off?

Yes his behaviour needs to be real led in, but it may be a response to the bullying rather than the cause

calabalamuc · 05/07/2017 09:10

oh this is ringing bells with me. I have a friend whose son is a right little turd. Knows it all, always blowing his own trumpet, being mean to my younger DS. He is good as gold when he is on his own with me (because he knows I am strict) but he is such a cheeky fucker to me the moment his mum is around. Weird dynamic.

And guess what - he is unpopular at school. His mum is mystified by this and thinks he is a 'nice boy' and I often wonder if I should say something to her.

I think the blowing his own trumpet comes from his mum as while she is not like that about herself, she is very keen that he has the best bike / best this / best that.

I feel quite sad because I actively avoid communal activities with my friend and son because he makes me grit my teeth. I think she should be told but I haven't dared to do it yet. Tough one.

ExplodedCloud · 05/07/2017 09:11

It wont end well. Nobody wants to hear their dc is horrid, even if they are. Even if they spend their time complaining that the dc has no friends etc.

JaneEyre70 · 05/07/2017 09:13

The thing is, she's either blind to his behaviour or she is OK with it. And there is no way your friendship will survive any criticism of her child. I can totally understand where you are coming from, but at the end of the day it's her son and her that has to deal with the consequences of his behaviour. I've had friends in the past that I've backed off from due to their children.....having bratty kids isn't appealing in the slightest.

Cagliostro · 05/07/2017 09:19

Only give your opinion if she specifically asks you, otherwise, bite your tongue and stay well away.*

and be prepared for a major fall out if you decide to tell her the home truths if she does ask you.

This. Bitter experience talking. I have lost a friend through this which is a shame but the other child's behaviour had become so nasty that my dc was scared of being near them. But any time I managed to bring up the issue the mum would turn it round on my DC (they asked for it, etc). Pointless. I'm not going to bother saying anything else because they will never change. All her kids have no friends but they have never accepted that they are the common factor.

Cagliostro · 05/07/2017 09:20

I see the thread has moved on somewhat Blush ignore me sorry I hadn't RTFT and was just ranting about my own situation Blush

TheNoodlesIncident · 05/07/2017 09:20

Don't do it OP. There is no way of saying anything that will be "gentle" enough.

Even people who ask for your opinion don't usually want to hear the truth, they have their own ideas in mind and want you to validate/confirm it.

It's difficult because if I asked this kind of thing of someone, it would be because I genuinely wanted to know. But I would still find it hard to cope with if what they were basically saying was "your child is not likeable". There's no going back from something like that.

crocodarl · 05/07/2017 09:20

Like everyone else is saying, it's not really up to you to judge....

But, if you really feel you should... I think you should do it by praising her elder child .... make an example of something he's done that is kind and maybe talk about how rare kindness is in children and how few parents seem to recognise what an important social skill kindness is.

That way you are not exactly pointing the finger at her youngest and it gives you an opportunity to test the water IF it works around to his behaviour, maybe you can slip some broad hints in... or backpeddle swiftly to save the friendship if you sense it's not going to go down well.

Oh, and, don't have this conversation if any children are even vaguely within earshot!!! It never fails to astonish me how many parents think discussing their children in front of them, in the third person, is OK. It's really not!

troodiedoo · 05/07/2017 09:21

For those saying he'll grow out of it. My brother is a know it all smart arse at 45. My mother has always been aware of it but I don't think she'd thank anyone else for pointing it out.

AndHoldTheBun · 05/07/2017 09:43

Lots of posts and no one has suggested ASD yet Smile, ok I'll do it... Grin

Op's friend has two socially awkward dc. Youngest is nine and parroting praise "I'm such a clever boy" in a way that might be typical of a much younger child (4 or 5), but is quite unusual in a 9 year old, and behaves towards others his age in a way that suggest he isn't picking up social cues about what is and isn't acceptable behaviour, it's making him unpopular and he's not reading that and modifying his behaviour to fit in better with his peers.

Maybe he can't modify his behaviour because (for whatever reason), he can't see how his behaviour is impacting others, and their interactions with him. Maybe he would benefit from support of some sort.
I'm not saying this dc is on the autistic spectrum but a couple of the things you have said about him are suggestive to me (as the parent of 2 diagnosed DC with ASD), that this is a possibility, but I don't think that's an easy thing to raise/suggest to a friend, unless they are asking/hinting/thinking along those lines themselves.
I've been both the friend and the parent in this situation. Mostly, I was the one expressing concern that my dc had ASD and most friends/relatives were dismissive of that (some still are, years post diagnosis!). I suggested to a friend in a VERY gentle and positive way that her DC (same age as mine), might benefit from the strategies and support my DC was receiving, she was said he couldn't be autistic as he behaved well at school (he was a model pupil, not like my DC at all!), but now that he's a young adult says she wishes she had pushed for assessment, as he coped less well with upper school and social stuff, then crashed out of university, unable to handle the pressure, because unlike my DC he had no coping strategies and no support from his university (very sad, he's a lovely young man, very, bright and in many ways capable)... for that reason I think PP's saying "he'll grow out of it" are wrong - well he might but it's more likely that he would learn to cope better socially if he had some support and strategies for doing that (and the sooner the better).

Goldenbear · 05/07/2017 10:46

I agree with all that Greentulips has posted. Why is there always this belief that in a school context popular equates to good, something to aspire and if you don't 'fit in' to that mould you're giving other children licence to bully you! IME popular is not necessarily something to aspire to as the children that are in so in my DD'S class are egotistical, narcissists in the making. My DD is unpopular in this setting as she is quiet and not precious, I.e she is not trying to marry boys and do dance routines to little mix at age 6! I have a very popular 10 year old boy, that is clever and sporty and humble so I know that popular can be a result of both good or bad actions but it is certainly not a full gone conclusion. Being bullied and being popular have nothing to do with each other!

Goldenbear · 05/07/2017 10:50

And this is why I would not utter a word about your perceptions of your friend's boy's popularity status. It may be that it is a defence mechanism.

StillDrivingMeBonkers · 05/07/2017 11:00

A mother dares share her (unconventional) tastes in books, music, hobbies with her son - how dare she

It's enough to make all his peers think him odd. Enough said.