Black girls are less innocent REALLY

[Fidoandacupoftea]

What have we come to as a society. As a mum of young girls I am angry, terrified and just can't understand the world

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-40451554/black-girls-perceived-as-less-innocent-by-us-adults

@mistressdeecee I am in interested in your views on Indian women who have black male partners. I have been with my partner for a whole now and we have no issues where we live but i do see attitude from both black and Asian people outside of London.

fatdogs really? I'very never heard of a non-Caribbean man named Idris, I know it's a fairly common name in British speaking Caribbean. Unless it's his screen name. Either way he is black British and there's no excuse for him peddling lies. It's not as if continental Africans were not involved in the BP movement. Being born and raised here he had the opportunity to produce an excellent and factual programme. He'd have done any research he needed to, Im sure. But he chose to go with lies.

Misogynoir is so 'casual ' that it's barely noticed. On the other hand black women are as heavily emulated as much as they are hated. That's a whole other topic

Re you & your partner you're more likely to face disapproval from your own community I would think? I'm not saying that's set in stone. Its based on situations I've personally seen and heard over the years. But for instance several Caribbean Islands have had a big Indian population since the times of indenture. So seeing an Indian woman with a black man and vice versa, numerous people who are mixed race part African Caribbean and part Indian, is an everyday thing. Nobody would even look twice.

England is a different ballgame I guess. You are always going to have people who hate difference. We notice it more in 'our own' don't we. Especially as we aren't the majority population here.

You say you have no problem where you live. So perhaps outside London the prejudice is compounded by fact that mixed couples are less seen. Then again I know mixed couples who live outside London and don't seem to get hassle, or if they do they haven't mentioned it. They are white woman/black man however. That appears to be more acceptable, maybe on its way to becoming an accepted norm. If as a couple you don't fit that demographic it can be more difficult. We are in London and DDs fiance is Italian. They've had stuff said to them from time to time and she says main culprits are young white English men.

My view on mixed relationships is people should mind their own business. One thing I do dislike is the unpleasant insecurity of a person who is in a mixed relationship but has a need to justify that by being nastily dismissive to women of his own nation. That sort of person isn't being true to the self & in a roundabout way is also being disrespectful to his partner by not being entirely and truthfully comfortable and happy in his own life choices.

But again on that I don't think (thankfully) we are anywhere near the levels in America. However racism is here to stay, that's for sure. Racists who can impact upon your lifestyle prospects, career options, safety etc via entrenched institutionalised racism are ever the most dangerous.

Tommy Sotomayor is truly vile. I'd feel the same way about any man of any nation who pursued a career based on "all the women of my own nation are shit". To be honest - I fail to understand why anyone who doesn't have a black woman as a partner would even be invested in what he says.

& he is so odd in that he has a black daughter. I wonder what her self esteem is like. Hearing her father spew hatred of who she is and represents every single day. I wonder what he has caused her to think of herself. I wonder what her mother was thinking of in even allowing such a man anywhere near her. Crazy situation.

My OH is mixed race. If he spent all his time say dissing mixed race women we wouldn't be together as I'd know deep down his focus truly wasn't me. I also abhor misogyny/misogynoir and sexism in all forms whether aimed at black, white, or Asian women

YouTube faced numerous complaints about Sotomayor. I do know black women targeted YT, and advertisers. I'm not sure if you saw online clip where he gets into a little altercation with an older black woman over car parking. He berated her in such a nasty, derogatory and offensive way,and was then gloating about it. I don't think he expected the outrage and disapproval he got from both white and black people. He apologised and has done a lot of backtracking since.

He rightly won't be forgiven though. There's a page somewhere called 10,000 black men against Tommy Sotomayor or some such. Men who actively counteract him and abhor his views about black women. He could never have come to UK there are too many people here who wouldn't stand for it. His shows would have been picketed to the enth.

@mistressdeecee I find black men much less misogynistic than a lot of Asian men in my experience or at least Black Caribbean men. But as you say they may display their misogyny towards women of their own community more obviously. Yes any negative reaction towards my relationship usually comes from the Asian community. I have to say I have never experienced any dirty looks or double takes from white people when out with my partner.
Black Caribbean and Asian relationships in the Caribbean tends to be a funny tho g depending on which island it is. From my experience, in Jamaica no one batted an eye but in Trinidad and Guyana we did get a lot of obvious looks and poor service in certain places. My theory is that in the islands where the Indian population was very small, they had to start intermixing and intermarrying and so had to get over any hangups they had. But on the islands where there is a sizable Indian population, they could afford to continue their prejudices and stick to their own so to speak.

@mistressdeecee I think Tommy Sotomayor is very conflicted. He clearly is attracted to black women and loves some black women but then has this vile disdain for them as well. I think there is a huge amount of self hate that he is projecting onto black women mixed with a large dose of plain old fashioned misogyny.
My partner says Tommy is simply displaying the truth about a lot of "ratchet" ghetto black women who are uneducated and rough and criminal in their manner and that it is not am indictment on black women in general. His theory being that educated professional black women know they don't fit into that category and so Sotomayor is not referring to them and thus they have no need to be offended. I am not sure it's as simple as that.

fatdogs do you not wonder tho how your partner can be so dismissive? He isn't the black woman whisperer no more than Sotomayor is. & I bet he personally knows no black women like that. Does he say these things in front of his mother sisters, other female relatives? Or only to you? Do you like it as a topic?

Would he like it if you focused on Asian men (that you don't know and aren't with) and with that, voiced all the stereotypes about Asian men we know very well exist? Particularly in these times? I'm wondering about this in particular. Would you feel a need to do that? From the way you sound, I don't think you'd be inclined to.

There should never be a need to dismiss others to convince your partner they're on a pedestal above other women, so as to actually get away in plain sight with pre-occupying self with the utterings and actions of other women who don't resemble their loved one.

There are rough criminal men and women in every nation, I should think.

By the way educated professional black women are even more so hated. Just for different reasons to do with envy of education and life choices, and the age old (inadequacy) fear that such women will make themselves unavailable to their type. Thats pretty much what lies underneath it all. They want to dictate but unfortunately, they cannot.

Rat

Hi OP,

Sorry for hijacking the thread - we can change the title if you like; just hit the report button and let us know what you'd like us to change it to.

It's strange you got hassle in Trinidad and Guyana. Given the size of the Indian populations there. I do see what you are saying tho. There are so many strands to misogyny and misogynoir that I can't keep up at times. But you as the woman who has stepped out, would more so be the focus and cause of disdain than the man. Sexism denotes women must always know their place. & that place is where the men of her nation say it should be. Apparently...

@mistressdeecee that is what makes me wonder. The psychology behind it os fascinating and disturbing. I don't think My partner believes what Tommy Sotomayor and men of his ilk spout as representative of all black women. But as a man maybe he finds it easier to compartmentalize women into certain categories in his head and is unable to see that it damages all women when someone keeps banging on about a stereotype. He certainly doesn't feel that it is representative of women in his family and he doesn't have daughters so perhaps it doesn't resonate in that way with him. I think also back home in Jamaica, there was some quite fixed notions about social class and people were generally dismissive and critical of what they call ghetto or "slack" behaviour. So for him there is this disdain applied to people or women in that category.
I was the one who found the Sotomayor channel while going the rabbit hole ofbthe internet doing research on MRA and MGTOW. it's scary that he has a lot of supporters and quite a few of them are women themselves. If a white person was say I g half the things he said, it would be hate speech. Not that what Sotomayor is saying isn't but I think people take it less seriously as he is attacking his own ifswim.

I must say I would find it very strange of my partner was continuously banging on about how he hates a certain type of woman and how he would never be with them but yet spends all his time preoccupied about them. I would probably think he is trying to trying to disguise a hidden latent attraction which he is for some reason ashamed of.

fatdogs I'm Caribbean and men I know personally - and I include my partner and my 5 brothers - simply aren't drawn by or interested in anything Sotomayor and his ilk have to say. They don't subscribe to the mindset. I have white (female) friends who've directly challenged him as being an idiot.

The stereotypes your partner is buying into, are actually harmful to the women of his family. Akin to white supremacists who are going to see and judge on "black" first and don't give a damn whether you look expensive or cheap.

Where does the need to 'compartmentalize' women come from...?

I'm not Jamaican- but as a Jamaican isn't your partner equally as disturbed, whilst he is compartmentalizing women, by the volume of men singing sexually explicit, homophobic, sexist lyrics in dancehall? Does he realise that in the way he sees black women as ratchet or ghetto - as a black man in the western Diaspora he is also subject to ghetto stereotypes, particularly those stereotypes that are specific to Jamaican men. Not men of any other Caribbean island - Jamaican. He will know what they are.

Will he believe he's seen as "not like the rest" because perhaps he wears a suit. &/or people are polite to his face? Bigotry often begets bigotry, unfortunately. Reminders of that will come along from time to time.

I wondered if when you were in Guyana and Trinidad, your partner's thoughts/stereotype regarding black women were ever apparent in any way at all. Because as you may know, back home neither men nor women will find that acceptable and will switch on you very quickly even if they don't outright tell you why.

Incidentally were you compelled to look up Sotomayor as your partner keeps going on about black women? It sounds as if this could be the case. Are you not curious..at the very least concerned...that you are Indian yet your man seems to be unduly invested in judging and criticising black women?

Regarding Sotomayor and his hate speech. He certainly isn't a huge deal in the black world. He's simply carved out a niche for himself amongst people who aren't very strong.

You will always have people who follow the deluded due to whatever's missing in themselves, normally a desperate crave to matter, to strive to feel better than others in some way.

A bit like Rev Jones leading people into the Guyanase jungle to kill themselves.

Your last paragraph there is very telling...

@mistressdeecee I think instated in my post that I, not my partner found the Sotomayor channel while doing some research on MRA and MGTOW movement. A lot of odious people in that movement I must say. My partner has no urge to go looking for things like this.
I think he is quite clear that there are numerous negative stereotypes attached to Jamaican men, not only by non black people but by black people of other Caribbean islands. As a working class black man from Jamaica he is more than familiar with this stereotypes applied to him once people hear the accent.
I don't recall saying that he goes on about it, simply that he did agree with some of sotomayors views when we were viewing his channel.I do think that is something you have projected from my posts. I can assure you neither i nor my partner tune in to hia channel every night for his stomach churning commentary. Well stomach turning to me anyway. My partner got irritated with him after about 4 similar videos although he did agree with some of his rants.

As for my last paragraph, I was speaking in general. My partner has never made any secret of the fact he is attracted to black women (well women of any race actyally if he finds them attractive)and in fact all his previous relationships were with black women so it's not like some men who deliberately go out of their way to date outside their race (although it's their choice ofbthe want to do that)
I certainly don't think that he puts me on a pedestal on the basis of my race.

fatdogs ok. So effectively, it was you who sourced Tommy Sotomayor and then brought him to your partner's attention? As a relationship dynamic I do not understand that at all to be honest.

Yes as said your partner will be stereotyped. But if he is doing same well then...bigotry begets bigotry is ever a situation in this world. The never ending circle. I do try to keep away from it as much as possible in all forms as I won't feed the notion. It's not conducive to peace of spirit.

Anyway lots has already been discussed so I will end my input there. It's been interesting.

To be honest though - a lot's already been said. That kind of thing isn't in my relationship dynamic or anyone I know

Idris Elba's parents are from west Africa but he is British born.

I love you lot.

I can't recall if it was the Independent or Guardian who wrote an extensive piece regarding the preview and his attitude, and his disingenuous later intimation that black women made Freda Pinto cry. I don't remember reading the piece which I would have loved too. I was put off after that interview and refused to spare my time to boost their ratings, which I try often with shows that include black characters or writers to offer my support. I draw the line when they become stupid. I did the same with empire when lee Daniels said one of the dumbest things about race and sexuality (being gay) and I thought, I don't have to put up with his shows anymore, Nor do I have time for them in the feature. If I can do the same to other dramas on tv, there is no way I should give them a pass based on race.

I do agree that there are aspects of dancehall music that are very misogynistic and homophobic and rap music as well. For some reason this became a thing in the 90s. I can't just put my finger on the switch to what it is but someone out there is to blame for this rise.
It's also, opposite to what black women had in the 90s to some extent. It just came across so far removed from the female empowerment that most of the females had. I can't say the Compton and new York had any thing to do with it or there was already an undercurrent of this.
Also, the Jamaican reggae musics influence and in the world is fascinating yet they have this undercurrent of misogynistic and homophobia that's seems to be accepted. This applies to hip/life and similar African genres too.

quencher yes, the dreaded Empire...! I watched 2 episodes and was cringing. Every crass stereotype you can think of crammed into 1 series. Embarassingly poorly written.

Black women in 90s Rap/Hip Hop - Queen Latifa, Salt n Pepa, Real Roxanne, Monie Love, MC Lyte, Missy Elliott..and so very many more. All women holding their own on the scene. Who made the decision to get rid of the women and promote misogynoir, shadeism, thuggery, etc via men? and why? It'd be interesting to know. The men in suits arent going to tell us anytime soon tho

Similar with Jamaican dancehall? Patriarchy and misogyny grabs attention in this world and so many buy into it as a "real picture" of black life and culture. Which of course it isn't at all. We are many and we are diverse. I don't get it. Its been so easily and seamlessly done that its actually quite un-nerving

I attended a reggae concert very recently at RFH. Good music. But I was in disbelief when 1 artiste gave long dialogues on the ills of homophobia and how wrong abortion is. It was a mixed crowd and certainly not all young, mix of ages too.

Notwithstanding other people's choices are nothing to do with him and Im here to hear you sing, thank you..I was thinking wtf?! If he can say that openly particularly in a prestigious venue then what hope is there for decency in this world? Everything bad is elevated, our good artistes are suppressed. Its selective madness

Hip-life, kuduro etc does't seem to be quite as bad. At least not yet. I have a mind it will get there, sadly

Men rule I suppose... in my dream world women withdraw all support for this type of thing and make it widely known they are doing so, and why. There are enough of us in this world to make a difference