Black girls are less innocent REALLY

[Fidoandacupoftea]

What have we come to as a society. As a mum of young girls I am angry, terrified and just can't understand the world

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-40451554/black-girls-perceived-as-less-innocent-by-us-adults

SABaby2

You can't judge the UK by the standards of south african immigrants. South Africans are the most awful racist people alive. That's south africa's fault, not Britain's fault.

We are never gonna get rid of racism all the while we're saying black girls. Or white girls. How about just girls? Why does skin colour matter unless your describing someone for identification purposes.

The mind boggles.

Not surprised that this is the case in the US at all. There were people who complained that Rue - an innocent, very cute girl character - was portrayed by a black actor, despite the fact she was written as black. (Some people were convinced she must be white and blonde after reading the book, prejudice apparently overriding reality)

Agree it is probably not the same in the UK.

Definitely not the same in Germany.
Germany isn't perfect, but the fact we didn't have to, you know, justify to ourselves the enslaving of black people, and then the discrimination of black people, for years and years, means that there aren't any entrenched stereotypes of black people.
Racists are more likely to apply some general "foreigners we don't want here" prejudice than any of the US American stereotypes.

And I just bet this "less innocent" thing developed as a thing in men's, in slave keepers' heads to justify raping even underage black girls.

C8H10N4O2
Again, I didn't say otherwise. I was challenging the assertion that class is not a big issue in the US.

You still don't get it. Class is raced in the UK. In that many things in the UK that would come under class are expressed by race in the UK. It's not about class and race, it's abut classrace or raceclass.

The divide between rich and poor black is also massive in the US, it isn't the non issue suggested.

No it isn't.

I didn't say that this is a bigger or even equal issue to race in the US.

It's not about more or less, it's about a completely different society with completely different structures,.

We are never gonna get rid of racism all the while we're saying black girls. Or white girls. How about just girls? Why does skin colour matter unless your describing someone for identification purposes.

Um, we are talking about racism here. Kind of hard to do that without describing the group we are talking about.

"We are never gonna get rid of racism all the while we're saying black girls. Or white girls."
I don't know, it is very hard to address a problem without the language to describe it.

Rolo I was about to agree with you after reading your post where you said There is no class for black people but then read on and saw your reply where you've just said, Of course black people fall into established class categories. Which one is it?
In answer to your questions, of course I've met wealthy, well educated black people before, I'm not sure they fall into Upper middle class society as defined in Britain though.

Now of course they can't be "upper class". Because being upper class means being of born nobility and they aren't. So their kids can be, but they can't.

Was cheering you until this point. But 'nobility' isn't restricted to 'came over with the Conqueror' caucasians ... And I, personally, don't live in a world where only forelock tugging English get to decide on matters of class. Thank god.

At DD1s school, and I'm going to try and word this carefully, I've noticed some attitudes coming from parents that will obviously be rubbing off onto their children.
DD1 had trouble with a girl in her class over a piece of coursework- DD1 said it was her work, the girl insisted DD was lying and it was hers. Girl is of carribbean origin (relevant).
As it was, I'd taken photos on my phone of the finished work to show DH, and was able to show the school this to confirm it was indeed DDs work.
When mentioned in passing what had happened, the reactions were quite shocking. Joking reactions of "trust the one black child in the year to be on the rob, hahaha", and, "tell DD to watch her bike, she'll be after that next!"

Yes, the girl did try to steal work. But that is down to her character alone, not her colour ffs. I do think the UK, and probably most places, have long-held racial stereotypes that need to be challenged when encountered.

Black - ghetto, loud, stealing,
Middle Eastern- terrorist, wife beater
Asian- cruel parents, small penis

When you compare those to the stereotypes held of white people - having bad teeth and they can't dance- they doesn't seem nearly as offensive in comparison!

I'm not surprised at all, there was a story last year in the US of a Police officer who raped over twenty Black Women and young girls because he thought no one would believe them and he was right, The white feminists were very silent at the time

You still don't get it. Class is raced in the UK. In that many things in the UK that would come under class are expressed by race in the UK. It's not about class and race, it's abut classrace or raceclass.

Oh dear gods, I was trying to make exactly the point that the two intersect in different ways and to different extents but both matter. Which as far as I can see is exactly the point you make above. Plainly neither of us read the other's text well enough to discuss this.

DarkChocolat

There's no class for black people in the US. There is in the UK. That's the point. That's the difference.

VestalVirgin

Thank you for finally getting it. Black Americans are hypervisible whilst black Britons until recently were completely invisible. That had good and bad effects.

In the UK, every negative stereotype, every poor impulse, every moral failure has been associated implicitly and explicitly with the WHITE WORKING CLASS. I can prove it. If I say a negative stereotype like "thick" or "poor", in your mind, what does the person who comes up look like? Are they black? NO. They are white working class.

Let's do more:

Criminal = you think of white working class. up norf they will nick your stuff BUT this is the only one where you could argue that the UK stereotype is heavily racialised. the black = crime stereotype is the strongest anti black stereotype in the UK

Teenage mum = white working class chavvy slags getting up the duff

Poor = white working class workshy, own fault

Unemployed and living on benefits = white working class lazy feckless, don't like to work. benefits street

Addict = white working class dirty old man in pub

Fat/ugly/dirty = white working class fat slag with 10 children

Dumb = white working class thick chavs who can't count to 10

Sexually active/promiscuous = white working class can't shut her legs

Does anyone really immediately associate those things in the UK with black people. No they don't. The first thought is WHITE PEOPLE.

In America, that is all associated with black people! Every negative stereotype is associated with black people. When a white or even a black American thinks of a poor person, they think of a black person. When they think of a dumb person, they think of a black person

Criminal = black people officer, a black man did it. better shoot a 12 year old because they are so dangerous

Teenage mum = black people shaqonda with her 20 kids

Poor = black people workshy, own fault

Unemployed = black people lazy, feckless, don't like to work

Addict = black people they love crack cocaine because of rap music

Fat/ugly/dirty = black people neck rolling, fat sassy black lady telling people she's gonna whip their ass

Dumb = black people like animals

Sexually active/promiscuous = black people have kids like animals

Now, it's not that in the UK, people don't have negative stereotypes about black people, but because of the need to justify the viciously evil treatment of black people, every single negative stereotype has been relentlessly associated with black people. It's like America has dumped all of it's hatred on black people because otherwise it would have to admit what it's done to them.

So many black people in the UK are picking up on US media and seem to think that it's all the same. It's all the same. No it isn't!

That's exactly it logicalpsycho guilty by birth. How does any child have a chance in such a society.

It's not what we have come to OP it's the society we live in. Black children are generally treated like they are older and more dangerous than their white counterparts. There are more likely to be excluded from school and are more harshly treated and penalised when it come to the criminal justice system. They just don't have the privilege that lots of people claim doesn't exist.

There was a recent story in the U.S about a white make who shot a Black female driver in the head as part of a road rage incident.

Another story last week of a white off duty police officer videos strangling a Black teen because he accidentally stepped on his front lawn. His White friend who did the same was untouched.

You still don't get it. Class is raced in the UK. In that many things in the UK that would come under class are expressed by race in the UK. It's not about class and race, it's abut classrace or raceclass.

Oh dear gods, I was trying to make exactly the point that the two intersect in different ways and to different extents but both matter. Which as far as I can see is exactly the point you make above. Plainly neither of us read the other's text well enough to discuss this.

Actually it's my fault. I miswrote. I meant to say class is raced in the US!! so we disagree but it's my fault for writing UK when I meant US.

And for all the people claiming things are so much better in the U.K please watch the documentary " Will Britain Ever Have a Black Prime minister?" Which explores some of the hurdles Black children in the U.K face.

The difference between the U.S and America is that if you are a Black child or Black person there is a high risk of you being murdered due to you race, whether by police or racist individuals

Oh and if I was Prime Minister I would ban the term "Black on Black Violence" unless we can also use the term "White on White Violence" something read about and see in the news daily

Actually it's my fault. I miswrote. I meant to say class is raced in the US!! so we disagree but it's my fault for writing UK when I meant US.

Actually I don't think we disagree (or at least by much). Yes I know race is the dominant factor in the US, compounded by what felt like a hierarchy of racial groups with black firmly pushed to the bottom (anecdotal observation only though). However I also saw quite entrenched class attitudes as a secondary factor.

Class is a massive issue in the UK but I've also seen it change over time (where change=different forms rather than lesser). The gap between primary class and secondary race as factors in the UK is narrower than I've seen in the US (where race is primary and class secondary). Does that make more sense?

Also Black people are always viewed as the aggressor eg. The Angry Black Female/Male narrative. This includes Black children as well. When Black people raise their concerns they are are ignored or accused of 'playing the Black Card".

Rolo I think we are speaking at odds here, and it might be because you are getting your US and U.K. Mixed up, because you've just said paraphrased, There is a class for black people in the U.K., but then go on to explain that all the usual negative stereotypes relate to White working class, you also haven't said where do the high achieving blacks fall in the class system in the U.K which was my initial question.
Earlier on someone had mentioned, 'posh black kid' which I thought was interesting, as I've never heard black people described as 'posh' in the U.K. I just don't think the general white population think of black people in this way, hence my question.

@RoseTico I think with racism people want to know so that they can stay clear of those who offend them. Instead of thinking they are friends but only see you as different to other black people because you are their friend and they know you well. You as a person do not change their perception of black people in general.

Also, black people learn to change their behaviour accordingly to fit in. If an American who has lived in the US and has learned to suppress who they are, how they speak and has to keep on constantly reminding themselves how words come out of their mouth, how they would approach a white person, in order not to be perceived as aggressive instead of assertive and speaking their mind and so on,
when they come to the UK with the thought that people will understand you and then you are judged the same as they would in the US but the only difference is they will not say a thing but use subtle ways to exclude you. What is deemed normal behaviour for a white person will not necessarily be the same for a black person and any clever black person will have to learn to manoeuvre their way through the system.

And yes, the brits are always subtle with their racism. With most people you will never know where you stand with them. That alone affects people mentally.

Back to the op.
People who do not believe the post to be relevant to the uk needs to watch the documentary about, "will Britain ever have a black prime minister"
One of the segment was about the treatment of young black children in nursery schools and the conclusion was racial bias and the perception key workers at nursery school had for black children. Under 5 ffs.

I do agree that the uk is not as bad as the US but the mentality is the similar.
Also, the uk relies on a lot of American media and the two and connected. What they watch we watch. What they read, we do to. Which means the view of black people in the uk mirrors America.

Based on that documentary they actually praised Americans for being way ahead in regards to racism compared to the uk. Now that's food for thought.

I have come a cross this before too and that documentary was not the first point it out.

rolo a massive part of why people think "white" when they hear a negative stereotype is because British people tend to think "white" when they hear almost anything - we have to be explicitly told (or given very strong indicators like a name overwhelmingly used for people of a non-white ethnicity) someone is black before we think of a black person.

At least, white British people do There I go, doing it myself…

DarkChocolat

I fully understand if I am being unclear. Black people in the UK participate in the class system. They can be working class, middle class, upper middle, upper. They can move between class groups (which is hard for everyone!). They are part of the class system. Thus the phrase there is class for people in the UK

Race in the US is the class system! Black people are the bottom class. No one can escape that. There is no "class" for black people in the US. That's why black people lost 50% of their wealth in the 2008 recession and the black "upper middle class" is collapsing. The situation of black people in America is very precarious.

A rich black person displaying all the middle class markers in America will still be treated like a poor chav here. There is no class for black people. That's the real issue.
This true between black and white.
But class does exist within the black community too and those who think of themselves are upper middle are bouji. Those who try to be them are bouji too but they are usually called out for acting bouji when they buy expensive things to show off their wealth when they can't afford it.